NO HELMET = NO RIDE

[Mick F]

I would say amongst what I would call "Cyclists" the vast majority wear helmets.

Cyclists are people cycling, doesn't seem a complicated definition to me. Stop being so tribal

This, plus there are local variations, but the overwhelming majority of UK cyclists don't use helmets. Doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or not: it's a published fact.

We've had this argument before.

You need to look at this "overwhelming majority" and where it is and how far they ride.
If you were to look at this though distances rather than numbers, the reverse would be true I have no doubt.

Also, if I were to have a round of golf - something I have never done nor have interest in doing - would that make me a golfer?
If I kicked a football round the park, would I be a footballer?

Those two examples are considered "sport". If you consider "cycling" a sport (or not), does that make that there are two distinct sorts of cyclists?

[Vorpal]

You need to look at this "overwhelming majority" and where it is and how far they ride.
If you were to look at this though distances rather than numbers, the reverse would be true I have no doubt.

I'm not sure that's true. Certainly in my old club, people wore helmets when they were required (club MTB, grass track, and CX events, road races), but the folks who came out for club runs were split maybe 50 / 50. I have to admit, though that for the under-40s, the split was probably mroe like 60 / 40 with helmet-wearers being the majority. So, I guess 30 years from now, unless some people give them up, those who wear them will be in the majority.

[meic]

Especially if it is compulsory by then.

[mjr]

This, plus there are local variations, but the overwhelming majority of UK cyclists don't use helmets. Doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or not: it's a published fact.

We've had this argument before.

You need to look at this "overwhelming majority" and where it is and how far they ride.
If you were to look at this though distances rather than numbers, the reverse would be true I have no doubt.

If we've had this argument before, then you probably already know that that data doesn't exist yet. I'm not convinced by the implied assertion that long-distance riders are more likely to use helmets, as tourists seem fairly evenly split and I suspect the users get injured more which will cut their total distances

Also, if I were to have a round of golf - something I have never done nor have interest in doing - would that make me a golfer?
If I kicked a football round the park, would I be a footballer?

Those two examples are considered "sport". If you consider "cycling" a sport (or not), does that make that there are two distinct sorts of cyclists?

Cycle-racing is a sport, but cycling is more than that. I'm not sure that's true of your other examples: does anyone kick a football as a way to get to work?

[Smiler1968]

Cyclists are people cycling, doesn't seem a complicated definition to me. Stop being so tribal

This, plus there are local variations, but the overwhelming majority of UK cyclists don't use helmets. Doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or not: it's a published fact.

We've had this argument before.

You need to look at this "overwhelming majority" and where it is and how far they ride.
If you were to look at this though distances rather than numbers, the reverse would be true I have no doubt.

Also, if I were to have a round of golf - something I have never done nor have interest in doing - would that make me a golfer?
If I kicked a football round the park, would I be a footballer?

Those two examples are considered "sport". If you consider "cycling" a sport (or not), does that make that there are two distinct sorts of cyclists?

That's an interesting point, one I've not considered before. But where do you draw the line? I commute to work most days. I sometimes take my mountain bike up to the local forest and throw myself around. I don't ride a road bike for fun. Would I be considered a cyclist?

I think I'm a cyclist, when I'm cycling. I don't consider that I am at any other time. I guess if a footballer makes a living out of playing football then they are a footballer same goes for golf.

I do dive(SCUBA), I don't make a living out of it, it's just for fun but I do consider myself a diver. I'm confused.

I dive with twin tanks for safety. I cycle with helmet.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my iPad using hovercraft full of eels.

[Mick F]

Yes, the argument ...........

I'm a cyclist.
I'm a cyclist even now sitting on my chair with a cuppa and a laptop.
I'm a cyclist when I'm asleep.
I'm a cyclist when I'm down the pub with friends drinking beer.
I'm even a cyclist if I haven't turned a pedal in a fortnight,
If people refer to me locally, they'll say, "You know Mick! He's the cyclist!"

Mrs Mick F isn't, and could never be, described as a cyclist.
She can ride a bike. She owns one, and rides it occasionally.

BIG BIG difference.

[PH]

Also, if I were to have a round of golf - something I have never done nor have interest in doing - would that make me a golfer?
If I kicked a football round the park, would I be a footballer?

I’m a cyclist when I’m cycling, I don’t define myself as such the rest of the time, though I know some do. So IMO in your example while walking around a golf course hitting a golf ball with a golf club you would indeed be a golfer. Here’s maybe a better example – The pilot flies a plane, try and think of a scenario when the person flying it isn’t the pilot.

[Mick F]

I agree.
However, is he a pilot when he's not flying?
Is he a pilot when he's riding a bike?
I've had a flying lesson and I took control. I was a pilot for half an hour, but the same time, I was STILL a cyclist.

Maybe you are called after your primary occupation?
When I was in the RN, I could have been described primarily as a sailor, but I was still a cyclist underneath. I'm a life-long cyclist, but was only a sailor for 27years.

[wahoofish]

Don't come and play golf with me if you haven't got all the gear though.

[Vorpal]

Don't come and play golf with me if you haven't got all the gear though.

What's all the gear? I have a set of clubs, although it doesn't include every single number. I don't have a full set of irons, and I also don't have a 2 wood. I have a driver, 3, 4 and 5 wood, and a chipping wedge, putter, sand wedge, and the following irons: 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I have some golf shoes, tees, balls, a golf towel, an umbrella, a (torn) glove, some ball markers, and one of those little tools to restore ball marks on a green.

I haven't used any of those things in at least 5 years, and I haven't been anything like a good golfer since I was about 18 or 19. I played for a team when I was teen, and I had free pass for several golf courses, so I played several times each week. I have since discovered that there is for me a direct correclation between score and frequency of play. So which counts the most? The gear? Is it enough? Being able to use it? Or being able to use it well.

Do I need to wear golf trousers, golf shirt, and a cap? How about a helmet? One could argue that it's worth while to wear one for golf. I've had a few near misses with stray balls, and a helmet might be a good way to prevent injury.

[PH]

I agree.
However, is he a pilot when he's not flying?
Is he a pilot when he's riding a bike?
I've had a flying lesson and I took control. I was a pilot for half an hour, but the same time, I was STILL a cyclist.

Maybe you are called after your primary occupation?
When I was in the RN, I could have been described primarily as a sailor, but I was still a cyclist underneath. I'm a life-long cyclist, but was only a sailor for 27years.

We see it different, I have no objection to you defining yourself in anyway you want, I do object to the idea that you can take that and apply it to others. Thinking someone who's cycling isn't a cyclist seems as absurd to me as thinking someone piloting a plane isn’t a pilot, I don't think the passengers would be happy to hear that.

[Mick F]

A pilot of an aircraft full of passengers is obviously a pilot.
He's still be a pilot when he's tucked up in bed at home.
He'd be a pilot down the pub or even on the golf course.
People who knew him, would describe him as a pilot.
He would describe himself as a pilot.

[wahoofish]

Don't come and play golf with me if you haven't got all the gear though.

What's all the gear? I have a set of clubs, although it doesn't include every single number. I don't have a full set of irons, and I also don't have a 2 wood. I have a driver, 3, 4 and 5 wood, and a chipping wedge, putter, sand wedge, and the following irons: 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I have some golf shoes, tees, balls, a golf towel, an umbrella, a (torn) glove, some ball markers, and one of those little tools to restore ball marks on a green.

I haven't used any of those things in at least 5 years, and I haven't been anything like a good golfer since I was about 18 or 19. I played for a team when I was teen, and I had free pass for several golf courses, so I played several times each week. I have since discovered that there is for me a direct correclation between score and frequency of play. So which counts the most? The gear? Is it enough? Being able to use it? Or being able to use it well.

Do I need to wear golf trousers, golf shirt, and a cap? How about a helmet? One could argue that it's worth while to wear one for golf. I've had a few near misses with stray balls, and a helmet might be a good way to prevent injury.

Best golf game I ever had was In Bedfordshire. Would have been useful to have a helmet as we discovered that, even with a low centre of gravity, you could put a golf cart on its side, albeit after many many beers. Don't think we made it past the 14th hole

[Vorpal]

Best golf game I ever had was In Bedfordshire. Would have been useful to have a helmet as we discovered that, even with a low centre of gravity, you could put a golf cart on its side, albeit after many many beers. Don't think we made it past the 14th hole

ahhh... drinking helmets....

[Dave W]

Do you have to wear trunks for the swim?