Cycling UK Forum

531colin wrote:Probably saves the weight of a cheese sandwich.

'Scuse me Colin, but isn't this frame your work? Can we take from your observation above that advantages of Ti are "exaggerated"?

Smiles wrote:

531colin wrote:Probably saves the weight of a cheese sandwich.

'Scuse me Colin, but isn't this frame your work? Can we take from your observation above that advantages of Ti are "exaggerated"?

...or that Colin likes a large cheese sandwich, perhaps?

To the best of my knowledge, "Meic" rides a Van Nich. My hands are old and arthritic, but the thought of being able to squeeze the downtube and have it deform is......ah....interesting?
I have told this story before, but on one occasion some numpty made some Spa steel Audax frames in bigger tubing sizes than the spec.
This was an opportunity to ride 3 different frames with the same forks, wheels, tyres and pressures.
The "oversize" steel was a really jarring ride, which I felt through my feet, oddly enough.
The Ti bike was a bit more comfortable than the regular steel bike, and no "slower" as far as I could tell.
The new disc braked "Elan" has longer chainstays and bigger tyre clearances than the Audax, and some altered tube profiles. Its a lovely ride, composed and comfortable, and also noticeably quicker off the mark.
Its not about the material, as such, its about using the right amount of the material, in the right way.
You can make a smallish steel bike comfortable enough for a light rider by going back to the traditional inch and inch and eighth frame tube diameters, but this looks "odd" to young riders brought up on oversize aluminium or carbon bikes.

djnotts wrote:Given a lotto win .... the Sonder Camino Ti would be top of my buy now list - on looks alone! Even though I have no possible justification for owning a bike with such obvious capabilities and versatility.

As for Ti v steel... I've had AFAIR 6 Ti framed bikes. One was the harshest and stiffest ride I've known and one the most comfortable. It's the angles and dimensions don't you know rather than the material per se. Steel can be "comfortable" ....or not. Choice comes down to cost and aesthetics - though Ti can of course be painted I think that rather defeats its main selling point!

There's something wrong with the design when the L size(my size,I'm 6ft tall) has a 74 deg seatube angle ,and the XL has a 73 deg s/tube
Crazy angles = bad design = look elsewhere.

reohn2 wrote:

djnotts wrote:Given a lotto win .... the Sonder Camino Ti would be top of my buy now list - on looks alone! Even though I have no possible justification for owning a bike with such obvious capabilities and versatility.

As for Ti v steel... I've had AFAIR 6 Ti framed bikes. One was the harshest and stiffest ride I've known and one the most comfortable. It's the angles and dimensions don't you know rather than the material per se. Steel can be "comfortable" ....or not. Choice comes down to cost and aesthetics - though Ti can of course be painted I think that rather defeats its main selling point!

There's something wrong with the design when the L size(my size,I'm 6ft tall) has a 74 deg seatube angle ,and the XL has a 73 deg s/tube
Crazy angles = bad design = look elsewhere.

...£150 extra for a custom build though. £150. That's all. Why would you not?

Bonefishblues wrote:...£150 extra for a custom build though. £150. That's all. Why would you not?

Good point,and I agree if I were spending that much on a frameset it would be the best option,though TBH why the standard one is built with such steep s/t angles is a mystery to me

reohn2 wrote:

Bonefishblues wrote:...£150 extra for a custom build though. £150. That's all. Why would you not?

Good point,and I agree if I were spending that much on a frameset it would be the best option,though TBH why the standard one is built with such steep s/t angles is a mystery to me

I suspect sir does not have a neatly-trimmed beard and would not be able to identify a hipster if he fell over one? All us cool kids is riding these angles nowadays, Daddyo.

(No, nor me)

reohn2 wrote:

djnotts wrote:Given a lotto win .... the Sonder Camino Ti would be top of my buy now list - on looks alone! Even though I have no possible justification for owning a bike with such obvious capabilities and versatility.

As for Ti v steel... I've had AFAIR 6 Ti framed bikes. One was the harshest and stiffest ride I've known and one the most comfortable. It's the angles and dimensions don't you know rather than the material per se. Steel can be "comfortable" ....or not. Choice comes down to cost and aesthetics - though Ti can of course be painted I think that rather defeats its main selling point!

There's something wrong with the design when the L size(my size,'m 6ft tall) has a 74 deg seatube angle ,and the XL has a 73 deg s/tube
Crazy angles = bad design = look elsewhere.

I'm 6 foot tall and I love the geometry. I don't know much (anything) about the theory of frame design, but I went to the factory and sat on a few and loved it. I've had mine for a few months now and probably done a thousand miles (its not my main bike) over various terrain and I still love the geometry.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, maybe it wouldn't suit some people but I love it. It's just great fun and puts a big smile on my face every time I get on it. The last few weekends I've forgone the pleasures of the club ride and just bomb around the local lanes and hills on my own - I'm like a little kid again - just riding for fun

Where are the frames fabricated, do you know?

mnichols wrote:
I'm 6 foot tall and I love the geometry. I don't know much (anything) about the theory of frame design, but I went to the factory and sat on a few and loved it. I've had mine for a few months now and probably done a thousand miles (its not my main bike) over various terrain and I still love the geometry.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, maybe it wouldn't suit some people but I love it. It's just great fun and puts a big smile on my face every time I get on it. The last few weekends I've forgone the pleasures of the club ride and just bomb around the local lanes and hills on my own - I'm like a little kid again - just riding for fun

One of the major gripes on here is from people not being able to get the saddle back far enough,especially if they ride a Brooks,more so from taller riders.
73deg is regarded as a steep s/t angle by many for bigger frames,74 deg is needlessly steep IMHO,and the chainstays could do with being longer to accomodate a slacker angle.
If it suits you then that's all that matters,but I think it would suit many more if the seatube angle was 72 deg.

reohn2 wrote:One of the major gripes on here is from people not being able to get the saddle back far enough,especially if they ride a Brooks,more so from taller riders.
73deg is regarded as a steep s/t angle by many for bigger frames,74 deg is needlessly steep IMHO,and the chainstays could do with being longer to accomodate a slacker angle.
If it suits you then that's all that matters,but I think it would suit many more if the seatube angle was 72 deg.

I have this problem on some of my other bikes, but I regard this one as more like a Mountain Bike, which means I feel a bit more over the cranks and so the quads work harder - I don't know if that makes any sense

I did a 60 mile hilly ride on it the other day with guys on their road bikes and it was hard work. It's not a road bike, racer or long distance tourer. It's faster than my hardtail and full sus MTB, but I wouldn't want to do long distances on it. I've done 200 - 250 mile rides on my Enigma Etape and I would still favour it over the Sonder for anything over 60 to 80 miles. But I would favour the Sonder over a MTB for anything over 30. Similarly I would use my carbon race bike if I need to go fast and don't need to carry luggage.

For me I'm not sure one bike will do it all, but if I had to choose two it would be the Enigma Etape for the roads and the Sonder for rough stuff. I probably won't replace the others when they go to the great bike shop in the sky.

I'd really like to have discs on my Etape though

I have a titanium Airborne Carpe Diem with a carbon Crosslite fork and I can honestly say it has a wonderfully forgiving ride, even compared with a Reynolds 531st framed bike which I also have. On a hybrid set-up it would obviate the need for suspension forks. Aluminium frames are not even in the same ball park. I have no experience of Carbon Fibre frames.

531colin wrote:Probably saves the weight of a cheese sandwich.

Mmmm..... cheese sandwich.....



cheers

531colin wrote:Its not about the material, as such, its about using the right amount of the material, in the right way.
You can make a smallish steel bike comfortable enough for a light rider by going back to the traditional inch and inch and eighth frame tube diameters, but this looks "odd" to young riders brought up on oversize aluminium or carbon bikes.

I couldn't agree more.

rotavator wrote:I have been riding a Van Nicholas Yukon for the past 11 years and I really like it. As others have said, the main advantage over a steel frame is that it is easier to keep looking smart because there is no risk of rust, scratched or flaking paint. ....

I still have my Yukon as well and like you I "really like it"; infact as much now as I did back then. I still find it super smooth, responsive enough for when I want to try hard, comfortable enough for when I just want to ride all day, or just use as my daily commute. If I had to reduce my bike collection to one, this would be the one I'd keep.



For sure I am biased as I was instrumental in it's evolution, I confess I am quite emotionally attached to it!