Cycling UK Forum

Hi,

mjr wrote:

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Edited - I don't commonly now overtake traffic that's stationary of fear of upsetting the one ejit who takes offence and screams at me for doing what they would do if they were me, when they catch me later.
Its more stressless to stay in the traffic if its slow.

We obviously have different feelings about what's stressful (I'm far more stressed by breathing difficulty from the fumes and the risk of being sandwiched in the relatively frequent nose-tail shunts) and I'm disappointed that road-ragers seem to have scared you out of a legal and normally-safe behaviour.

Never scared, not my words

A thought for those who favour filtering on the outside.

It's quite likely that an aide got out of the opposite side of the car at the same time as Chris Grayling. If you're doored going down the inside, you end up on the pavement or going into a lamppost if you're unlucky. If you're doored going down the outside, there's a fair chance of going under the front wheels of a car coming in the opposite direction.

I don't encounter traffic queues much, but when I do my first assumption is that I will join the queue in primary position, so I slow and assess the situation. If it looks safe I may then decide to filter left or right, no standard answer, judgement call in each case. In general I consider the left to be safer because there's less to monitor and I'm close to the safe space of the pavement. On the right there are more risks - traffic coming the other way doing something stupid, car I'm overtaking spotting a parking space on the right and suddenly going for it, etc.

Some of you may recall the case from a couple of years ago of the car driver, with illegal tinted windows, who fatally doored a cyclist under the wheel of a bus. Iirc, it was on the Edgware Road. Since the relevant legislation on dooring only provides for a small fine, he was charged with manslaughter, there being no appropriately serious motoring offence he could be charged with. Those of you who do not recall it will be unsurprised to learn he was acquitted.

I'm not going to bother digging it out now, but on an earlier similar thread - minus careless transport minister - there are links to the relevant bit of Bikeability, which IIRC says overtaking on the nearside is ok in certain circumstances and to parliamentary endorsement of Bikeability.

The technical solution to careless passengers is to extend the central locking of cars so that the driver is responsible for checking before letting passengers open doors. That would leave it to enforcement if the driver was careless with his own, or passenger doors. (I knew there was something I had overlooked. )

thirdcrank wrote:I'm not going to bother digging it out now, but on an earlier similar thread - minus careless transport minister - there are links to the relevant bit of Bikeability, which IIRC says overtaking on the nearside is ok in certain circumstances and to parliamentary endorsement of Bikeability.

It's in mod 3 (optional) of L3 (the advanced part)

Filtering is moving up the inside or outside of slow
moving or stationary queuing traffic. The choice of
whether to filter on the inside, outside or at all rests
with the cyclist who must judge if there is sufficient
space to do so safely.

I always find this one a PITA to deliver as I can never find a reasonable queue when I need it!

I generally avoid filtering on the inside unless the traffic is stationary. When I do (most days on the way home at one particular set of lights), I'm aware of the the risks but I'm unlikely to be travelling very fast.

I would be extremely wary of cycling up the inside of a stationary taxi but I can see that it must be a common situation in London. Ideally the taxi would stop next to the kerb but that could be tricky with so many cyclists about.

Can't believe people are blaming the victim just because he was there. On a motoring forum you would expect it, but here?
Ok so the bloke may possibly have been going a little fast but filtering on the left is quite legal and in many cases the rational choice. As others have pointed out filtering on the right has risks too, and if you're not going to filter in a congested, polluted city you would be better to walk - it would probably be quicker and healthier!

The only time I was doored was on the right - caught the edge of the door with my knuckles - plenty of blood and mess for me and no damage whatsoever to the car.

Tip - fit metal bar ends and angle them forwards. Then if some imbecile flings their door open into your path, you can at least inflict a few £££ of bodywork damage (probably a bigger financial penalty than the courts would apply), the bar ends will also provide excellent hand protection.

Mark R wrote:Can't believe people are blaming the victim just because he was there.

Who's blaming the victim?
I'm not.

I'm saying that it's better to be careful and be safe, than to take the risk filtering up the inside. If a cyclist does it, they have to be aware that there are risks. It's not a matter of being a "victim".

As Si has said regarding Bikeability:
The choice of whether to filter on the inside, outside or at all rests with the cyclist who must judge if there is sufficient space to do so safely.

Mick F wrote:

Mark R wrote:Can't believe people are blaming the victim just because he was there.

Who's blaming the victim?
I'm not.

I'm saying that it's better to be careful and be safe, than to take the risk filtering up the inside. If a cyclist does it, they have to be aware that there are risks. It's not a matter of being a "victim".

As Si has said regarding Bikeability:
The choice of whether to filter on the inside, outside or at all rests with the cyclist who must judge if there is sufficient space to do so safely.

+1
My choice is not too ... and reflects my cycling routes.
Some years ago i took part in a 3 times weekly 54 mile commute to work and back with a mixed group of cyclists, triathlon and marathon folk.
The highlight of the day was always the section through Ipswich at commuter time.
Undertaking, overtaking, zooming through the stationary traffic carving up the lorries ...... grown up now .... lol

Here is a report of Chris Grayling the transport minister (a TORY) dooring a cyclist (with a video):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/vi ... door-video

He also appears to be reported as blaming the victim by saying he was speeding thus admitting that even though he saw the cyclist (to determine his speed) he still went ahead and opened the door.

Last weekend I went on a cycle ride in aid of vulnerable road users after a friend of my daughter was killed on her bike. I tried to get my MP (a TORY) to join the ride and she was absolutely not interested. The same happened with the Police and Crime Commissioner (a TORY) who even went on to offer the advice that we must all be careful when we use the roads (no kidding).

Is it just me or is it the case that TORY MPs do not give a dam about vulnerable road users? The LibDems and the Labour party have been absolutely marvelous. I did not try the other parties. I have not voted for 25 years in case anyone thinks I am biased.

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

mjr wrote:

Mick F wrote:At no time did I "undertake" any vehicle, and I had no intention of doing it either.

Congratulations - you've been doubly co-opted by the motoring lobby! Firstly, by calling it their prejudiced term "undertaking" and secondly, by refusing to overtake motorists stuck in jams of their own making unless there's some oft-ignored paint marking a lane that's usually narrower than safe.

I am with Mick F on this point/s.
How else you going to do it

Edited - I don't commonly now overtake traffic that's stationary of fear of upsetting the one ejit who takes offence and screams at me for doing what they would do if they were me, when they catch me later.
Its more stressless to stay in the traffic if its slow.

I will use a pavement occasionally when its safer and I am not inconvenienceing anyone.

Mic F's way is the best way I.M.O.

Some posters hear appear to favour car drivers view.

So when you are approaching a cycle lane which is on the left or are in an interrupted left hand cycle lane you overtake on the offside where there isn't a lane, but then cut back in to join the cycle lane?? That's effectively what you saying.

It's now on the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38340125

.

I was once let off the Isle of Wight Ferry before the future Chancellor of the exchequer and the other three vehicles in his motorcade. It was quite nice to watch the body language of the ministerial driver as he processed the fact that the cyclist was leaving before him. Very gratifying.

If only every body was as cycle savvy as WightLink Ferries. Even cabinet ministers are not immune from having to adhere to health and safety I am pleased to say. Pity Mr Grayling was not as aware.

gaz wrote: ... Drivers should expect cyclists to be filtering on either side of slow moving traffic.

The Secretary of State was a passenger. (Like so many politicians.)