What is your soln to the Southern Rail dispute?

[reohn2]

If 30m long vehicles that don't leave from where you want to start your journey, and don't go to where you end your journey, and don't leave when you want to leave, and don't go to some parts of the country at all, hardly run at night, cost thousand of pounds an inch to build their track, and turn into busses most Sundays, were such a good idea, we wouldn't have to subsidise them so much.

Shsssh! It's a matter of faith. Don't introduce logic. In Edinburgh they spent the best part of a £1 billion to built a one line tram service that is slower than the bus despite running on a dedicated track much of the way.

"MONORAIL"

"MAGLEV"?

[reohn2]

This negativity is so tiresome! ...........

Well you started it by claiming teachers could be trained in a year,or was that optimism?

[irc]

"a report commissioned by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions result in a higher total cost figure of £71-95 billion (in 2006 prices). This excludes the costs of physical inactivity and other as yet un-monetised costs such as severance effects and loss of tranquillity."

Those aren't actual costs. They are never counted in the cost of rail either though equally applicable.

[Edwards]

There is something realy wrong at the rail company. The company and the union agree a deal, then the people who actualy operate this equipment reject it.

I wonder if the fact that the trains are not designed and not all of them properly equiped to be used driver only could have something to do with it?
These trains are not the 2 carriage type and at some stations you can not see the other end of the train (the bend in the track).

The drivers no longer trust the company and it would appear they do not want to be blammed when things go wrong that they feel are unsafe.

[tanglewood]

If I was able to advise and suggest, the whole staff should resign.
Don't strike ............... resign on mass.

They have mortgages and children to feed.

So who pays them when they're on strike?
Their union?
Do they get as much as when they are working?
If they resigned .......... or even went on indefinite strike ........... the train company would bow to their wishes. They'd have to because their company would collapse overnight.

Also, I reckon that the train company should wind its neck in and leave everything as it is, and then enter into arbitration over the long term to sort this sorry mess out. At this moment by doing and acting like they are BOTH doing, no-one wins and everyone loses, especially the customers.

Bang their heads together.

With 18 months of training in passenger safety and customer relations, they would walk into any private sector services job.

[tanglewood]

:lol: Is there any form of transport that doesn't get some subsidy or tax break now?

And does that mean all transport is a bad idea?

Or just that it's usually more efficient for the baseline to be public?

The 2009 Transport Select Committee report, Taxes and Charges on Road Users, calculated the total taxes and charges on UK road users as £48 billion per annum. The report quoted the typical annual expenditure on roads as about £8-9 billion.

Please don't plagiarise, especially from a page making the exact opposite point to that you seem to be: http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as ... -motoring/

"a report commissioned by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions result in a higher total cost figure of £71-95 billion (in 2006 prices). This excludes the costs of physical inactivity and other as yet un-monetised costs such as severance effects and loss of tranquillity."

In other words, each pound in tax from motorists costs us two pounds!

You think it is relevant to count the cost of delays in traffic, and the opportunity cost of being physically inactive in a car, as being part of a "subsidy".

[pete75]

18 months training! What on earth are they doing for 18 months? Teachers are trained in 9 months!

Rubbish. It takes four academic years for a graduate teacher to train and five for some subjects which have a four year degree course like modern languages. Three or four years to learn the subject matter to be taught and another year for the teacher training.

[pete75]

For anyone like me struggling to understand the issues, this article by Railfuture seems (To me) to be impartial
http://www.railfuture.org.uk/article169 ... aff-duties

It looks to me like there's a lack of honesty on all sides, but the reality is that the dispute is very much between the unions and the government rather than the train operators. Either we have a nationalised railway or a privatised one, this hybrid isn't working and never will.

In 1925 Lord Birkenhead said 'It would be possible to say without exaggeration that the miners' leaders were the stupidest men in England if we had not frequent occasion to meet the owners.' - don't look like things have changed that much.

[thirdcrank]

There is something realy wrong at the rail company. The company and the union agree a deal, then the people who actualy operate this equipment reject it.

I wonder if the fact that the trains are not designed and not all of them properly equiped to be used driver only could have something to do with it?
These trains are not the 2 carriage type and at some stations you can not see the other end of the train (the bend in the track).

The drivers no longer trust the company and it would appear they do not want to be blammed when things go wrong that they feel are unsafe.

I'm led to believe that the problem is not between the company and unions, but rather that the government has set the agenda and the company is just following it. The financial arrangement here, apparently, is that the company remits all fare revenue received to the government and the government pays the company for running the trains. This means that the company's best interests are served by meeting its contractual obligations to the government.

[tanglewood]

18 months training! What on earth are they doing for 18 months? Teachers are trained in 9 months!

Rubbish. It takes four academic years for a graduate teacher to train and five for some subjects which have a four year degree course like modern languages. Three or four years to learn the subject matter to be taught and another year for the teacher training.

Instead of being rude, why not just look it up?

https://getintoteaching.education.gov.u ... ing-routes

You need a degree to get on a course. To get a degree you need other qualifications too. None of these are anything to do with teacher training. If you qualify for training, the training is 1 year, or two years part time. If school-led, it is two terms.

I know, because I am a qualified teacher, as posted earlier.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels

[reohn2]

......... I know, because I am a qualified teacher, as posted earlier.

And you thought you were fully qualified when you took your first class?

I put it to you that the training had just begun.

[tanglewood]

......... I know, because I am a qualified teacher, as posted earlier.

And you thought you were fully qualified when you took your first class?

I put it to you that the training had just begun.

Well, given that I've done it, and became a senior school leader responsible for professional development, and being married to an educational psychologist - yes, I'd know.



I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels

[reohn2]

And you thought you were fully qualified when you took your first class?

I put it to you that the training had just begun

Well, given that I've done it, and became a senior school leader responsible for professional development, and being married to an educational psychologist - yes, I'd know.

I apologise if I my question wasn't clear,the point I was trying to make was,did you think all the training was done when you took your first class or that your learning had just begun?

I don't know what the job of a rail employee entails exactly,as I don't don't much about a teacher's job,and I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the length of training needed for either.
But I doubt very much a teacher can be trained up fully in 12months,there's no substitute for experience,either for teachers or rail staff and either takes longer than that IMHO.

[tanglewood]

And you thought you were fully qualified when you took your first class?

I put it to you that the training had just begun

Well, given that I've done it, and became a senior school leader responsible for professional development, and being married to an educational psychologist - yes, I'd know.

I apologise if I my question wasn't clear,the point I was trying to make was,did you think all the training was done when you took your first class or that your learning had just begun?

I don't know what the job of a rail employee entails exactly,as I don't don't much about a teacher's job,and I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the length of training needed for either.
But I doubt very much a teacher can be trained up fully in 12months,there's no substitute for experience,either for teachers or rail staff and either takes longer than that IMHO.

No worries!

The difference is between the formal training and permission to work as a teacher, and being really good at it.

Some are really good at it before they even qualify. On my PGCE we could all see who they were. They just had this confidence, maturity, presence of mind, and sheer love of what they were doing - from week 1 of the training. Others, like me, we had to really, really, work at it...

After 6 years and 1 year of a senior role, I knew I wasn't ever going to be one of those special ones, so I left the profession and became a civil servant.

What makes it worse for me is that my wife was one of those who were brilliant from day 1, and she is still in the business at just about the most difficult end of it.




I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my wobbly bog brush using hovercraft full of eels

[reohn2]

So a year to train a teacher?
I don't think so.
Even the naturally talented teachers need more than a year to know the job inside out,would you say?