Crashes and Carnage on M27 & A27

[Cyril Haearn]

One treacherous bit is just west of Arundel....

Roads are not dangerous or treacherous

I didn't say it was 'dangerous'. I said it was 'treacherous' - a stretch that might catch the less careful and alert driver unawares, for reasons I've explained. Unfortunately there are some motorists like that. And of course it's people's driving that makes a road 'dangerous'.

Drivers are criminals. I do not know the place, how many keep under the maximum speed, do you?

I don't know what point you're trying to make, but leave me out of it please.

I asked a two questions and would like answers, thanks very much.

Correction: most [not all] drivers are criminals.

[661-Pete]

All right then.

Way back in the heady days of the old C+ (Cycling Plus) forum (now transmogrified into BikeRadar), which many folks on here will remember in its early swashbuckling days, we had one individual who flaunted the sig. line "Cars are c***ppy: throw rocks at them". I have to say that I did not care for that remark, especially seeing as it appeared beneath every one of his posts. I believe in the end the Mods took exception to it too, and it was taken down.

Do we want that sort of stuff on this forum?

Of course there are bad drivers. Of course there are even criminal drivers. We've all seen a few. But I'm a car user. So are many others on this forum. I'm not proud of the fact: it's born of necessity. But to generalise with some remark such as "Drivers are criminals" - no matter how tongue-in-cheek, how flippant, the intent - sorry that's not on, on this forum. No good backpedalling. What's posted is posted, plenty of people will have had a chance to read it. And judge, in consequence, what sort of forum this might be.

As to the imputation that I might habitually transgress speed limits - well, I leave that to others to judge. I will merely say that I would not direct that sort of remark at my fellow-forummers.

I suppose my wish that we could all be 'nice to each other' on this forum, went down the tubes post-referendum, anyway.... (*sigh*)

[Cyril Haearn]

All right then.

Way back in the heady days of the old C+ (Cycling Plus) forum (now transmogrified into BikeRadar), which many folks on here will remember in its early swashbuckling days, we had one individual who flaunted the sig. line "Cars are c***ppy: throw rocks at them". I have to say that I did not care for that remark, especially seeing as it appeared beneath every one of his posts. I believe in the end the Mods took exception to it too, and it was taken down.

Do we want that sort of stuff on this forum?

Of course there are bad drivers. Of course there are even criminal drivers. We've all seen a few. But I'm a car user. So are many others on this forum. I'm not proud of the fact: it's born of necessity. But to generalise with some remark such as "Drivers are criminals" - no matter how tongue-in-cheek, how flippant, the intent - sorry that's not on, on this forum. No good backpedalling. What's posted is posted, plenty of people will have had a chance to read it. And judge, in consequence, what sort of forum this might be.

As to the imputation that I might habitually transgress speed limits - well, I leave that to others to judge. I will merely say that I would not direct that sort of remark at my fellow-forummers.

I suppose my wish that we could all be 'nice to each other' on this forum, went down the tubes post-referendum, anyway.... (*sigh*)

No imputation, I have no idea at all whether you break the law. Please answer my questions!

I drive to work every day. I am surely the only one who halts at the STOP sign joining the main road. Fact is, the majority of drivers habitually break the law, that is not just an allegation or opinion of mine.

[Johnocyprus]

Drivers of modern vehicles have no fear of their journey, they assume they will arrive safely and if in the unlikely event they should have an accident the safety features of the car will protect them.
I have a 1960 Austin Healey Sprite and I drive it knowing that if I'm involved in an accident It's going to hurt ; I of course drive it very carefully.
A simple solution would be to make to make it illegal for drivers to have a seat belt fitted, that would cut down the carnage immediately. Pigs will fly first.

[Cyril Haearn]

All right then.

Way back in the heady days of the old C+ (Cycling Plus) forum (now transmogrified into BikeRadar), which many folks on here will remember in its early swashbuckling days, we had one individual who flaunted the sig. line "Cars are c***ppy: throw rocks at them". I have to say that I did not care for that remark, especially seeing as it appeared beneath every one of his posts. I believe in the end the Mods took exception to it too, and it was taken down.

Do we want that sort of stuff on this forum?

... (*sigh*)

No we do not, agreed! Unfortunately many other media publish such material, rod liddels philosophising for example.

"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death [?] your right to say it". Not so sure I agree with that..

I would generally not support damage to property but there are occasions where one can almost understand it. In a large city near here illegal parking on footways and cycleways is ignored. Many times the authorities were asked to act. They did nothing. A self-declared parksheriff took the law into his own hands. He damaged wrongly parked vehicles or sprayed paint on them. At last the police sprung into action, went out in plain-clothes and soon caught him. Seems to me he went a bit too far. He could have just smeared yoghurt on the windscreens. Looks like birdshit.

[661-Pete]

All right. Peace!

I don't do an awful lot of driving, and latterly in life I do take care to stay within speed limits and observe traffic signs (but I would say that, wouldn't I?). Sadly this was not true in my younger days. I recall one incident when, on a business trip and driving a pool car which was a higher-performer than my own, my passenger colleague suddenly complained that I was touching 105mph. It was on the M4, and before the days of speed cameras. I am not proud of that transgression.

Good enough answer?

As to the stretch of A27 west of Arundel, I often drive that bit westbound (i.e. uphill) but rarely eastbound (it'd be complicated to explain the reason). There's often serious congestion amongst the eastbound traffic, stretching back miles. Whether congestion makes people's driving 'safer' I don't know. I doubt it.

[pwa]

All right then.

Way back in the heady days of the old C+ (Cycling Plus) forum (now transmogrified into BikeRadar), which many folks on here will remember in its early swashbuckling days, we had one individual who flaunted the sig. line "Cars are c***ppy: throw rocks at them". I have to say that I did not care for that remark, especially seeing as it appeared beneath every one of his posts. I believe in the end the Mods took exception to it too, and it was taken down.

Do we want that sort of stuff on this forum?

... (*sigh*)

No we do not, agreed! Unfortunately many other media publish such material, rod liddels philosophising for example.

"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death [?] your right to say it". Not so sure I agree with that..

I would generally not support damage to property but there are occasions where one can almost understand it. In a large city near here illegal parking on footways and cycleways is ignored. Many times the authorities were asked to act. They did nothing. A self-declared parksheriff took the law into his own hands. He damaged wrongly parked vehicles or sprayed paint on them. At last the police sprung into action, went out in plain-clothes and soon caught him. Seems to me he went a bit too far. He could have just smeared yoghurt on the windscreens. Looks like birdshit.

I used to think that parking on footways was illegal until someone here in Wales started a campaign to make it illegal. Apparently it is legal or illegal as local bye-laws dictate. Generally I keep my car wheels on the road. But sometimes that is not feasible. If you need to park outside a particular house to load furniture or pick up an elderly relative, and parking entirely on the road would block the road, putting two wheels on the pavement might be the lesser evil if you leave ample room for pushchairs, wheelchairs and so forth. And I do mean ample. In South Wales valleys communities this is the norm. There really is no alternative.

[661-Pete]

I used to think that parking on footways was illegal until someone here in Wales started a campaign to make it illegal. Apparently it is legal or illegal as local bye-laws dictate.

It's generally legal in France, and there is even a specific sign indicating as such.

Whether this is a good idea or not, I'm in two minds. The "0.8m" advice seems well-founded - enough space for a pushchair, but not really enough space for a wheelchair?

[pwa]

I used to think that parking on footways was illegal until someone here in Wales started a campaign to make it illegal. Apparently it is legal or illegal as local bye-laws dictate.

It's generally legal in France, and there is even a specific sign indicating as such.

Whether this is a good idea or not, I'm in two minds. The "0.8m" advice seems well-founded - enough space for a pushchair, but not really enough space for a wheelchair?

Yes, more like 1.2m would be ideal. What frustrates me is that whilst we have to accept that 19th Century streets in Tonypandy were not designed with cars in mind, many recently built housing estates have much the same problem. Roads too narrow for parking, but with insufficient parking elsewhere.

[kwackers]

many recently built housing estates have much the same problem. Roads too narrow for parking, but with insufficient parking elsewhere.

Would it help? A lot of cars are parked on pavements in front of houses that have empty drives. Even where I used to live my neighbours pulled up onto the pavements rather than their drives.
The estate around here they deliberately built parking around the back of the houses yet people parked in the bike lane out front. When the council made threats social media was full of folk whining about there not being enough parking and so they *had* to park out the front. Yet when the council made a number of unofficial surveys they found the parking to be no more than 30% full and garage occupancy to be almost zero.

I think it should be illegal but with councils given the option to make exceptions rather than the other way around.

[661-Pete]

Well, one of my next-door neighbours has rather a lot of cars in their extended family. With, clearly, insufficient space on their short driveway, and heaven knows what filling up their garage (not a car, at any rate) you can easily guess where the rest of the 'fleet' end up....

We are also fairly close to a primary school. Hence, at around 9am and also at 3pm.....

[axel_knutt]

The insurance industry might...

I'm sure they do. And there was an inquiry about the rising cost of motor insurance in 2013, where such things were likely reported. I had a quick look for information and didn't find anything.

I think the rise in the cost of insurance is mainly the result of crash for cash, and bogus whiplash rather than an increase in accidents though. I recall John Adams mentions that there's a wealth of data held by insurance companies, and complaining that they refuse to release it for research purposes. Perhaps we might find out that their premiums don't accurately reflect the risk.....

[Vorpal]

I think the rise in the cost of insurance is mainly the result of crash for cash, and bogus whiplash rather than an increase in accidents though. I recall John Adams mentions that there's a wealth of data held by insurance companies, and complaining that they refuse to release it for research purposes. Perhaps we might find out that their premiums don't accurately reflect the risk.....

I think they don't release it because they practice discrimination, and charge people who live in minority neighborhoods, higher premiums. I've experienced that moving from a minority area into a nearby white, middle class housing estate, premiums drop significantly.

[BakfietsUK]

Check out many news organisations in the UK and they will report on a Police operation to enforce mobile phone laws around driving. Specifically "using a mobile phone whilst driving". It's surprising that mobiles have not seemed to figure in the discussion here.

I don't know what on earth pavement parking has got to do with this, bar the notion that it is a reflection of the cluelessness of some drivers and an illustration of their seeming contempt for their fellow humans. I guess that could explain mobile phone abuse.

I respect your honesty 661-pete and I think your answer respects the spirit of the OP. Since I posted this thread I have learned (from other sources) that mobile phone offences have rocketed which could very well be at the root of what I have observed in my locality.

I still find it amazing how this thread has darted and dived around real answers to the actual issue and seems really reluctant, to go to any great depth of exploration.

Check out too a recent edition of Judge Rinder, where there was a case of a driver in severe denial about the standard of his driving. Good to see the Judge seeing through the fog of misleading testimony and imposing the full ruling on behalf of the plaintiff. The defendant, well I think he thought he'd been hard done by and showed no remorse.

[Vorpal]

I think this thread has been interesting, despite the wandering.

I have personally always been amazed that we make a BIG DEAL out of a few deaths from this or that (especially related to violence) and the death toll on the roads is not worth a mention.