Building Titanium Audax Bike

[PH]

Here's an FDJ bike (Lapierre Pulsium) from Paris Roubaix in 2014 with a 28mm fitted, you could easily get a retro-fit mudguard underneath that fork, point being you don't 'need' discs to be able to fit wider tyres and have mudguards.

Depends what you mean by wider tyres. But if you're going to have disks anyway, there seems no reason not to also have better clearance to allow bigger tyres.

[Bonefishblues]

This https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/bikes/son ... e-and-fork seems good value. No idea what they are like to ride though!

Looks nice, but I no not think it is possible to fit mudguards on that fork...

Speak to Neil and discuss this. Given our conversations I haven't the slightest doubt that this wouldn't be an issue, even if an alternative fork had to be found. Neil's the Alpkit bike specialist by the way. Note that for a very small premium you can have a custom frame.

[The utility cyclist]

Here's an FDJ bike (Lapierre Pulsium) from Paris Roubaix in 2014 with a 28mm fitted, you could easily get a retro-fit mudguard underneath that fork, point being you don't 'need' discs to be able to fit wider tyres and have mudguards.

Depends what you mean by wider tyres. But if you're going to have disks anyway, there seems no reason not to also have better clearance to allow bigger tyres.

And yet some modern road bikes with discs can barely fit a 28mm tyre in them (see Canyon's latest Aero frame for one), if you're redesigning a frame completely to accept discs, why not redesign it so that you can use wider tyres with calipers if not but a marketing ploy.
I mean discs are not the nirvana most seem to be implying, in the wet on a high speed descent when using carbon rims you might save a second or two on your approach speed, otherwise they are pointless.

[PH]

And yet some modern road bikes with discs can barely fit a 28mm tyre in them (see Canyon's latest Aero frame for one), if you're redesigning a frame completely to accept discs, why not redesign it so that you can use wider tyres with calipers if not but a marketing ploy.
I mean discs are not the nirvana most seem to be implying, in the wet on a high speed descent when using carbon rims you might save a second or two on your approach speed, otherwise they are pointless.

Sorry you've completely lost me, I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me
The OPs original requirements are disk brakes and 28mm tyres.
My point is - If you're having a disk frame it may as well take wider tyres - by wider I mean wider than you'd fit under a caliper brake.

[531colin]

This https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/bikes/son ... e-and-fork seems good value. No idea what they are like to ride though!

Looks nice, but I no not think it is possible to fit mudguards on that fork...

Speak to Matt and discuss this. Given our conversations I haven't the slightest doubt that this wouldn't be an issue, even if an alternative fork had to be found. Matt's the Alpkit bike specialist by the way. Note that for a very small premium you can have a custom frame.

They have gone for a 50mm offset carbon fork, this allows a slack head angle for relaxed handling, and the opportunity to avoid toe overlap with mudguards. If they could have found a similar fork with eyelets, i imagine they would have used it.
Pity about the seat tube angle.

[Bonefishblues]

Looks nice, but I no not think it is possible to fit mudguards on that fork...

Speak to Matt and discuss this. Given our conversations I haven't the slightest doubt that this wouldn't be an issue, even if an alternative fork had to be found. Matt's the Alpkit bike specialist by the way. Note that for a very small premium you can have a custom frame.

They have gone for a 50mm offset carbon fork, this allows a slack head angle for relaxed handling, and the opportunity to avoid toe overlap with mudguards. If they could have found a similar fork with eyelets, i imagine they would have used it.
Pity about the seat tube angle.

Would 5mm offset difference make much difference Colin? Interested as a cursory search links two with 45mm offset as the first results.

[Heltor Chasca]

Looks nice, but I no not think it is possible to fit mudguards on that fork...

Speak to Matt and discuss this. Given our conversations I haven't the slightest doubt that this wouldn't be an issue, even if an alternative fork had to be found. Matt's the Alpkit bike specialist by the way. Note that for a very small premium you can have a custom frame.

They have gone for a 50mm offset carbon fork, this allows a slack head angle for relaxed handling, and the opportunity to avoid toe overlap with mudguards. If they could have found a similar fork with eyelets, i imagine they would have used it.
Pity about the seat tube angle.

I'm intrigued. I'm a complete geometry heathen, so my apologies Colin, I'm after your knowledge. What is the difference between a 72.5 (Spa) and 74.5 (Alpkit) seat tube angle, in 50cm flavour?

[Tiberius]

Hello,
I made a list of the characteristics that the new bike should have:
- Must be titanium
- Must be able to mount mudguards
- Must be able to mount 25mm tyres with mudguards (preferably 28mm)
- Must have disc brakes
- Must have a comfortable/relaxed geometry
- Must have fittings for rear carriers

VERY similar to the list that I made last year....

I built up a Van Nicholas Amazon...Titanium frame/Carbon fork/Shimano 105 groupset/Discs/28mm tyres/SKS mudguards/Tubus Cosmo rack/Brooks B17 to sit on.

Lovely to ride, and looks so so

[531colin]

.....
Would 5mm offset difference make much difference Colin? Interested as a cursory search links two with 45mm offset as the first results.

It makes enough difference for me (and them?) to scour the market for a fork with greater than 45mm offset.
You will see 45mm offset traditionally paired with 72 deg. head. Comparing that with 71 deg. and 50mm, there is about 15mm difference in either reach or front centre, depending on how you use it.
Get up to 55 offset and 70.5 deg. and you have bagged yourself around an inch.

[531colin]

............I'm intrigued. I'm a complete geometry heathen, so my apologies Colin, I'm after your knowledge. What is the difference between a 72.5 (Spa) and 74.5 (Alpkit) seat tube angle, in 50cm flavour?

In round terms, the difference is about 20mm. Their top tube measurement will be around 20mm shorter than mine, BUT if you want the saddle far enough back in order to take the weight off your hands, that will cancel out the apparent difference in reach. I can't get my saddle far enough back at all with 74 degree seat tube.

[gloomyandy]

They have gone for a 50mm offset carbon fork, this allows a slack head angle for relaxed handling, and the opportunity to avoid toe overlap with mudguards. If they could have found a similar fork with eyelets, i imagine they would have used it.
Pity about the seat tube angle.

The website claims that a fork that can take a front pannier rack is also available, no idea if this will have the same offset (or even if it is carbon). Perhaps the "adventure bike" market they seem to be aiming at does not favour guards and racks? Yes it is a pity about the seat tube angle! Though I suppose a layback seatpost will help for some folks. They also seem to offer a custom frame option for a pretty good price, so perhaps the seat angle could be fixed that way?

[531colin]

I missed the pannier rack fork, mudguards will obviously fit on the mid-fork low-rider mount.
Seems odd they don't highlight it, they quite clearly say "rear carrier/mudguard fittings" somewhere on the site.
A custom frame should include seat angle, but I am (always) at a loss why people take frame angles from triathlon fashion and apply them to any old bike.
Ask yourself, is this a bike a 30 year old athlete will do an Ironman on, or a bike a 50 year old will use for a day in the hills?

[gloomyandy]

Ask yourself, is this a bike a 30 year old athlete will do an Ironman on, or a bike a 50 year old will use for a day in the hills?

I suspect given that they seem to target "adventure" sports like climbing etc. that they have in mind the 30 year old that has tried climbing/sea kayaking, who rides a "fixie" to the office, picking up some sort of very expensive coffee along the way, while watching youtube clips of folks deep water soloing or base jumping on the latest Apple product! Or possibly the 40 year old that thinks he is this 30 year old!

How this compares to reality is another issue!

[Bonefishblues]

Goodness, the stereotyping is strong on this one, isn't it.

OTOH when I was chatting to Neil he was describing someone of my sort of age (very much not 30s) who had been asking similar questions to me and how the bike & spec had been customised to his requirements, and how he was just back from the Alps.

One could perhaps look at it (as I am) as a potential solution for a do-it-all bike to resolve the n+too many issue. Huge clearances, custom build, custom frame, titanium at a sensible price, from a company that has a fantastic reputation for what they do in other field. They have already spent much time having a discussion with me, which featured (important this) their disagreeing with some of my thoughts and suggesting what might be better alternatives.

Of course, if it's a bike for hipsters, all of that falls away, I guess, since the over 30s don't do any of the pursuits they support

[gloomyandy]

My tongue was very much in my cheek with the target market comments.

Before my knees started giving me problems I was very much a climber and occasional mountaineer, as such I've known about Alpkit for a fair time and have been a happy customer of theirs several times over the years. Now my main interest is cycling (in many forms including touring/TT/ and general just riding about with good friends in a club), so I was very interested to see that Alpkit has moved in this direction. Hence my recommendation on this thread!

You do have to admit though that the image that Alpkit presents is very different to that of say Spa. I've found both excellent to deal with over a number of years, and long may they both continue!