Cycling UK Forum

I know this is a cycling forum but this footage is so shocking and shows what vulnerable road users are up against:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/ca ... t-12690909

I wonder if the driver believed the myth that 4x4 means better road holding ability. Taller cars handle worse than lower cars. And of course the speed of the car was way too high for a wet road. Probably too high for a dry road. I can't tell, but i wonder if the driver also panicked on seeing the horses and braked hard, making the car slide sideways even more. Very poor driving whichever way you look at it. I'm surprised the horses came out of it okay.

I think the driver of the mid-2000s Honda CRV (if I recognise it correctly) entered the corner with far too much speed - perhaps they may have mistakenly thought the road went SA until the last moment, at which point they understeered into the riders. One also wonders about the condition of the tyres, which surrendered grip very easily.

There was an escape route to avoid collision until the very last moment, but it seems that they fell prey to the "failure to steer" syndrome, which means many avoidable accidents aren't.

If I've worked this out right, this is a streetview of the driver's approach. (I've just explored a bit around the Witcham Equestrian Centre and found the most likely looking junction.)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.40124 ... 312!8i6656

Assuming I've got the junction correct, the only reason (not excuse) I can see for the driver's behaviour is that they've reached the end of the 30mph (just before this shot) and then accelerated without regard for the corner. Being surprised what's been around the corner they have been indecisive.

From the initial effect of these antics, it's amazing that the injuries seem to have been relatively light and that's not thanks in any way to the conduct of the driver.

The fact that horses are involved probably makes this more newsworthy than a couple of cyclists in the same position. We'll probably never know, but the police response to this will be interesting. The security camera(?) footage seems pretty good evidence to me.

In the viedo I saw (the new paper one wont play for me so I had to watch a youtube copy), there is a break where everything freezes and immediately before the break the car, having stopped, starts to pull away and when the video resumes the car has disappeared. Does the car actually drive-off or just out of shot and do the Police know details of the offending vehicle ?

It is quite horrific and worrying in a general vulnerable road user context.

I suspect of most rides I experience at least two overtakes from behind on a blind/inadequate visibility right hand bend (so I can see better than the overtaking driver) and it's always a complete matter of chance if the car meets something oncoming - fortunately they rarely do as when they do they swerve back across to my side again and I have to panic react to avoid being knocked-off! (but that is rare).

Ian

thirdcrank wrote: . . . .

Your StreetView sleuthing tells a story. Looking back towards where the car has come from we can see how little grip might be available when it's wet - look at the smooth glistening road surface that would have a cyclist tip-toeing around the bend.

Too much speed, too little grip, since my previous comments about being surprised by the bend seem unfounded. Wonder about their tyre condition/brand?

Hi,
My view is the car driver was not taking enough attention, and distracted, the car should corner better than that.

thirdcrank wrote:If I've worked this out right, this is a streetview of the driver's approach. (I've just explored a bit around the Witcham Equestrian Centre and found the most likely looking junction.)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.40124 ... 312!8i6656

Assuming I've got the junction correct, the only reason (not excuse) I can see for the driver's behaviour is that they've reached the end of the 30mph (just before this shot) and then accelerated without regard for the corner. Being surprised what's been around the corner they have been indecisive.

From the initial effect of these antics, it's amazing that the injuries seem to have been relatively light and that's not thanks in any way to the conduct of the driver.

The fact that horses are involved probably makes this more newsworthy than a couple of cyclists in the same position. We'll probably never know, but the police response to this will be interesting. The security camera(?) footage seems pretty good evidence to me.

If it is that junction then it looks like it is not an accident hotspot. I cannot find a way to save a lonk to the specific site but http://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search and enter the search clue "witcham" and the junction you identify is middle near the top (in my browser) with no accidents shown. But a bit below and left (south and west) the shown area on the A142 (roundabout with Ely road) as a really nasty blackspot so plenty of recording of accidents in the area.

Ian

Very nasty! Incredible that the horses seem to be relatively unhurt, and the bay one seems to take its time sizing up the situation before deciding to bolt (presumably it was later recovered)! And that the uninjured rider seems to be paying more attention to the black-and-white horse than to her companion on the ground - but perhaps that's what her companion asked her to do.

I have plenty of respect for horses, I like to think - I meet them often enough when out cycling, and I'm fully aware what large - and sometimes unpredictable - animals they can be! Horse riders are often more vulnerable than cyclists - if they come off they have further to fall before hitting the ground.

But in that situation, if it had been two cyclists rather than two equestrians, we'd quite likely have been reading about a dead cyclist....

661-Pete wrote:Very nasty! Incredible that the horses seem to be relatively unhurt, and the bay one seems to take its time sizing up the situation before deciding to bolt (presumably it was later recovered)! And that the uninjured rider seems to be paying more attention to the black-and-white horse than to her companion on the ground - but perhaps that's what her companion asked her to do....

I noticed that and assumed there must be some "priorities" in such circumstances e.g. brief visual assessment then the dangers from a scared injured horse bolting around roads could be an automatic priority (although one did disappear).

I know in some of my activities, when there is injury you have to focus on the most significant dangers. But I've no idea about horse riding (my attempts to learn many years ago were very short-lived).

Ian

The horse rider left standing had a difficult job to do. If the injured rider on the ground was conscious and talking, I'd say that controlling the horses could well be the right first thing to do. Not just for the sake of the horses, but for the safety of other people in the area.

pwa wrote:The horse rider left standing had a difficult job to do. If the injured rider on the ground was conscious and talking, I'd say that controlling the horses could well be the right first thing to do. Not just for the sake of the horses, but for the safety of other people in the area.

And the safety of the rider on the ground preventing s/he being trampled on by a distressed and shocked animal.

It's terrible bit of footage and caused by terrible and dangerous driving by an idiot.
There is simply no excuse for such driving.

The van that arrived later had absolutely no problem coming to a controlled stop at a point around which the other only appeared to be starting to react.

Hi,
I reckon about 2 seconds from seeing the car to collision.
The horse riders could not have got out of the way.
They appear to be communication to each other prior the collision.
The rear rider reacts but cannot move the horse quick enough.

A fighter pilot needs, or used to need to react quicker than I second to avoid / attempt to avoid a heat seeking missile.
Typical car driver reactions to brake times are put at 1.3 - 1.5 seconds but could be 3 seconds.

I have had two texting drivers heading straight a me twice in 6 days last year

But I think a cyclist would react a bit quicker than the horse riders could of as they have to make horse change direction.
Yes more dangerous than a cyclist on average.

I hope nobody would be putting any blame for this on the riders who looked to be doing something fairly normal for that type of road in a normal sort of way. The time available for reaction was totally in the hands of the driver and by cornering so fast they reduced it too much.

As for the conduct of the riders after the event, they did pretty well in the circumstances. One horse remained loose and then trotted off when the second vehicle stopped: perhaps it didn't want to try its luck twice. The fact that they didn't deploy a couple of emergency warning triangles to protect the scene is understandable. There seems to be no soundtrack, but from what we can see the riders have kept their cool. That's nothing to do with the driver's bad driving, but IMO it enhances them as witnesses - if it ever gets that far.