Cycling UK Forum

kwackers wrote:You can run a modern car almost forever with nothing more than the occasional oil top up.

You've obviously never heard of something called a cambelt and what happens when it breaks.

pete75 wrote:You've obviously never heard of something called a cambelt and what happens when it breaks.

Course I have. But foreign objects not withstanding you'd be surprised how long some folk make them last!

Of course such problems never existed back in the 70's did they?
Honda couldn't make a motorcycle engine that didn't have camchain problems. I saw quite a few were the chain had sawed it's way out of the block in just a few thousand miles.
They fixed it in the end by completely changing the engine design and using gears. (Don't know how their modern engines work, they're so reliable I've never needed to strip one).

kwackers wrote:

pete75 wrote:You've obviously never heard of something called a cambelt and what happens when it breaks.

Course I have. But foreign objects not withstanding you'd be surprised how long some folk make them last!

Of course such problems never existed back in the 70's did they?
Honda couldn't make a motorcycle engine that didn't have camchain problems. I saw quite a few were the chain had sawed it's way out of the block in just a few thousand miles.
They fixed it in the end by completely changing the engine design and using gears. (Don't know how their modern engines work, they're so reliable I've never needed to strip one).

I'm not saying stuff was perfect back then there were problems but things were nowhere near as bad as you claimed. Most cars were reasonably reliable and started without problems.
Some engines had cam belts back in the seventies. My father worked at a car manufacturing company which used cambelts on their engines - changed them every few hundred miles though.

I

In the 70s my mother had a Morris Minor Traveler (50s/60s technology) a Simca (French rubbish) and a Ford Escort. Of those, it was only the Morris that she could find anything good to say about. The Ford and the Simca were both likely to leave her stuck miles from home waiting for the AA van.

pete75 wrote:I'm not saying stuff was perfect back then there were problems but things were nowhere near as bad as you claimed. Most cars were reasonably reliable and started without problems.

I think the main problem was that manufacturing was a bit hit-and-miss. The classic Friday afternoon, Monday morning cars that were nothing but problems.

You can get that now, but it's a lot less likely. CAD/CAM systems and better materials technologies make for much more consistent vehicles.

pwa wrote: ... waiting for the AA van.

Read the lists of main reasons for callouts by the breakdown organisations and driver error is nowadays behind a lot of them: lost keys (which reminds me what poor security keys used to offer, in the days when one worn Mini/ Escort / Viva key would fit plenty of cars with a different key number) flat battery; running out of fuel; filling with wrong fuel, kerbing a wheel. I'm not suggesting that drivers didn't make errors previously, just that breakdowns for mechanical and electrical reasons were more common.

Isn't it also true, though, that failures / mistakes used to be easier to deal with?

Looking at that list: Lost keys, it wasn't difficult to hotwire your own car. Run out of fuel, many drivers carried a spare can (I know, scary, but was it really any more dangerous than the fuel tank?). Flat battery, O.K. by the Seventies they had largely done away with starting handles, but older cars had them. Plenty of people carried jump leads and you could use them without upsetting the computer. Tow or push starting (downhill!) worked too. Kerbed a wheel, there was a proper spare and most drivers could manage a wheel change (remember when cars used to get punctures?).

Even wrong fuel was a smaller problem with a carbureted engine, though probably not a side of the road job. Some of the engines would run (badly) on a mix of petrol and diesel anyway.

What I'm thinking is that drivers made the same errors, but were more likely to sort them out themselves or with the assistance of passing motorists.

I'm too young to remember the 70's (much) but my first car was a 50's Land Rover. It broke down regularly but I never called recovery, just carried a lot of tools. These days that only works for bikes.

Ruadh495 wrote:Looking at that list: Lost keys, it wasn't difficult to hotwire your own car. Run out of fuel, many drivers carried a spare can (I know, scary, but was it really any more dangerous than the fuel tank?). Flat battery, O.K. by the Seventies they had largely done away with starting handles, but older cars had them. Plenty of people carried jump leads and you could use them without upsetting the computer. Tow or push starting (downhill!) worked too. Kerbed a wheel, there was a proper spare and most drivers could manage a wheel change (remember when cars used to get punctures?).

Few of those are more difficult to deal with now, just that people have gotten used to not needing to.

Keys. Hot wiring might have been easier but the steering lock was still on.

Running out of fuel. Nothing to stop you carrying a can (although unlike my missus I prefer to fill up while the gauge still shows fuel left).

Flat battery, you have to try quite hard these days to get one, plus the batteries last much longer. (Mines 12 years old now and tested fine a few months ago). Headlights turn to sidelights if you forget (plus there are alarms to remind you etc etc).
But even if you had one a pair of jump leads still works - as does push starting, providing the battery isn't absolutely flat.

Wheel changes are just as easy now as then.

I think folk just don't like getting dirty now, they'd rather phone breakdown and get someone else to do it.

Ruadh495 wrote: ... I'm too young to remember the 70's (much) but my first car was a 50's Land Rover. It broke down regularly but I never called recovery, just carried a lot of tools. These days that only works for bikes.

I used to have a Land Rover and did much of my own work.. It had Range Rover wheels (in the days when a Range Rover was more of a workhorse) and I could change my own tyres, including getting them back on without levers.

We once had an intermittent fault which I couldn't work out because sometimes it seemed electrical others a fuel problem. After thinking I'd fixed it a couple of times at the roadside, it wouldn't start on the driveway. As I was in Homestart I rang the AA. In those days they had a depot nearby and in no time at all there was the AA man, a tiny chap who could practically climb into the engine compartment. He found a fuel fault and an electrical fault which had been taking it in turns. Apparently, he was the AA's own mechanic, in the days when they had a fleet (I think AA patrols now have some sort of franchise deal) and he said that he liked Land Rovers so much that when the call came in, he volunteered to deal with it as a treat.

Without a diagnostic computer, you're up the creek these days. And D-I-Y bike repairs aren't necessarily getting easier.

kwackers wrote:Who else but the Brits would design a car with the high voltage electrics right behind the grill exposed to the weather...

Mini?
1100?

If you had problems, it was down to maintenance (again).
I drove my Mini Van for over 40,000miles before I sold it. JTB 63F. Willow Green.
I had three issues mechanically with it.

1. The battery lead goes under the front sub-frame. Eventually, the cable insulation would short out where it had rubbed near the resilient mounts.
2. Brushes wore out in the dynamo.
3. Return spring on the SU carb broke off when I was overtaking at full throttle! I had to switch off and pull over. Luckily, I had a lazzy band to fit on it to keep me going.

Never had a problem with the electrics at the front. Keep the distributer cap clean and use good HT leads, and all will be well.
Remember the Italian Job?
The three Minis fording the river?
How did the Minis win the Monte Carl Rallies?

Mick F wrote:

kwackers wrote:Who else but the Brits would design a car with the high voltage electrics right behind the grill exposed to the weather...

Mini?
1100?

If you had problems, it was down to maintenance (again).

Maintenance? Drive on the motorway with all the spray continually battering the high voltage stuff and eventually the water got in.
Nothing to do with maintenance. They simply couldn't handle a continuous high pressure drenching.
They were famous for it. Every motor factors going sold all sorts of fudges to fix it.

The biggest issue imo where the Lucas electrics. They made almost nothing that worked properly.

Over the years I had several of them. Still a favourite of mine due to the way they handled back then when everything else was wallowing all over the road...

First car, 1972 Datsun 240z, bought S/H in 1979, front wings fell off on the drive home from Newark, rusted out. Fitted pattern replacement fibre glass wings. Ran it, blew the head gasket, repaired it. Drove through a puddle one evening and got soaked from head to toe, it was like a tidal wave in the car, the water came up through the floor, new girlfriend was not impressed. Ended up writing it off.

Moved on to a Mini Clubman, fitted with a 1300gt engine and box, went like hell, swapped it for a Singer Vogue and some cash. Singer was good car.

Next, Daimler V8, got it cheap, had to replace a burnt out exhaust valve. Another good car, but rust was a problem.

Had lots of VW beetles through the 90's, great cars, but you had to look after them and watch out for rust.

I can't remember any of the above being particularly challenging to drive.

However my latest drive is a challenge, 1935 engineering, preselect gearbox, cable brakes, hand throttle and advance and retard lever. And breaks down every time I drive it...

Drive on the motorway in a Mini?????
Don't get me going.

I bought that Mini Van in early Jan 1972 just after I got back from the Far East. Within a week, I'd met the future Mrs Mick F.
I was based in Portsmouth. Miss Mick F was in Lancashire.

I drove up to Lancs just about every Friday - 250miles. Then drove back late on a Sunday night - another 250miles.
I was doing perhaps 750miles a week with 500 of them on the main roads and by-passes to Cheltenham, and M5/M6 to Lancashire.
I've done more than my fair share of motorway driving in a Mini Van.

Since then, I've had another six Minis.
One of them was SDH 17R "vomit" yellow. 850cc saloon.
We were living just up the road from here and I would drive down from Glasgow each weekend - 500miles each way. 1991/2
A30/M5/M6/M74/M73/M8

Yes, I've driven sufficient mileage on motorways in a Mini to be an authority on it.

Mick F wrote:Drive on the motorway in a Mini?????
Don't get me going. <snip>

And yet a quick search on every classic mini forum brings up the same problem time and time again...

Perhaps they're all driving my old minis?

Wow! That Riley is lovely. I had an Armstrong Siddely with a preselector box. One day I started it up on the handle and the engine raced because the choke was well out and the car motored forward as the centrifugal clutch engaged. Fortunately it was parked a few feet from a wall and I managed to jump out of the way. Bent the handle quite nicely! Those WERE the days. I love seeing the St Mary's Trophy at the Goodwood Revival. The cars are pre 1966 but it's always a fantastic spectacle. Last year it was Austin A30s and A35s.

Al