Spa Cycles Elan Ti

[urbanhiker]

531Colin. Thanks for that, all great info. Looks like I'll be able to get there on Saturday, so looking forward to getting an Elan test ride

The AR-1 disc has also caught my eye, though on the website they only show it as a frame. Will be enquiring about that on Saturday. Any idea what the differences between that an the ElanTi are? Are they radically different rides?

You give the impression you may have designed the Elan?

And lastly, is it you in the photos in the DIY bike fitting doc? Good info in there, ta.

[531colin]

Yes, the photos in the bike fitting DIY are me and an Elan prototype on my mate's trainer in his garage. The Elan front end is now much taller than that prototype.
Briefly, I designed the Elan to be the sort of bike I want to ride (and the people i ride with). I shall be 70 soon, so I want the handlebars level with the saddle, and I want room for sensible size tyres and mudguard clearance; I want to ride the rough steep lanes in the Dales (and the occasional track) so i want sure-footed handling....a "no surprises" bike to take me home at the end of the day when I'm shattered. I ride with many recreational cyclists of various ages who also like their bars higher than their knees(!). All the same, its no slug.
I haven't had much to do with the Sabbath, but overall i think of it for a sportier (younger?) rider, with lower front end and a crisper ride with more direct handling. Theres a good chance of a Sabbath available for test rides, as well.
If you want to follow up on the through axles, I will defer to somebody younger about that, but it will take you into the "bespoke frame" business, so you could potentially combine characteristics of both bikes, for example if you had a Spa back end on a Sabbath frame you could get a quick bike with the ability to take big tyres

[Heltor Chasca]

All my home brew equipment, a Honda mower a canoe and associated paraphernalia has sold! Project-Audax-Lighter-Bike is 'GO'.

[belgiangoth]

Hi Colin, so... you must be convinced by disk brakes then?

[531colin]

Hi Colin, so... you must be convinced by disk brakes then?

I shall be 70 in June, and I'm used to the brakes on my own bikes. Anything i need to do to my brakes on the road, I can do in the dark with cold hands. I don't use road STIs, so most of my bikes have full size Vee brakes and the specific levers. I don't have to wrestle with the compromises of using road STIs, that is poor tyre clearance of dual pivot sidepulls, rim and tyre clearance compromises of mini-vees, and I know exactly how to set up mid-profile cantis to best advantage on the one remaining bike that has cantis. My off-road bikes have carbide rims, so rim wear is a thing of the past.

Over the last few years, i have picked up a few things about disc brakes. You have to face the (ISO?) mounts, whatever the frame manufacturers say. You have to use the pad adjusters, because the ball-bearing type calipers can run out of travel. Sintered pads are user-friendly. Cables matter. You have to center the brakes.

Before my hands became arthritic, stopping my bikes with cantis was only limited by my ability to keep the rear wheel in contact with tarmac. Then I rode the prototypes with hydraulic disc brakes, and they are staggeringly effective. I mean, staggering. But I need a triple, so its not for me. Then prototype tourers with cable discs and triples came along, and I was disappointed with the cable discs.....right up until I went back to my own bike, and found it didn't stop!

So disc brakes are on my present list!

Spa is a business; there are things the customers will have, whatever I think or say.
One of those things is road STIs.....you simply can't sell drop-bar bikes with bar end or downtube levers.
Another of those things is disc brakes.
So from that point of view, its happy days.....if you want road STIs and decent clearances, disc brakes is one way to get that.....with the bonus that the brakes are frankly better than any rim brake that suits road STIs and decent clearances......and probably better than any rim brake anyway, for most people's use.....provided they are set up and maintained sensibly.

[belgiangoth]

Thank you for your quite considered (and considerable) response. I don't look forward to learning about setting up disk brakes or messing with hydraulics; I already find gears odd!

[Heltor Chasca]

Thank you for your quite considered (and considerable) response. I don't look forward to learning about setting up disk brakes or messing with hydraulics; I already find gears odd!

I find discs MUCH easier to maintain and for my purposes the advantages lead outright. Matter of choice though. It was interesting chatting to a client's daughter today who is an avid roadie and just back from Belgium. She is considering her first road bike with discs.

[531colin]

Thank you for your quite considered (and considerable) response. I don't look forward to learning about setting up disk brakes ...............

I think that was my main point.....I wasn't looking forward to learning a whole new set of stuff, at my age.
but actually, its not that difficult.....by the time i had sorted out a clubmate's disc brakes on tour, and set up my son-in-law's disc bike (both chain store bikes) I was already borderline competent.
And then there's arthritis, and I'm buggered if I will let it stop me riding.

[fatboy]

I'm torn! I am soon in the market for a treat bike. My head is telling me a Spa Ti tourer whicj I love (I have a steel Spa tourer home brew which would become my commuter bike) but I can't stop thinking about the elan. I only occasionally do fully loaded touring. If I got a steel fork (an option I believe) would it make a good tourer?

[pwa]

I'm torn! I am soon in the market for a treat bike. My head is telling me a Spa Ti tourer whicj I love (I have a steel Spa tourer home brew which would become my commuter bike) but I can't stop thinking about the elan. I only occasionally do fully loaded touring. If I got a steel fork (an option I believe) would it make a good tourer?

I've used the same bike for commuting and touring, which frees up the other bike to be something a bit more nimble. You could keep a separate set of cassette, chain rings and chain for touring, allowing you to refresh your tourer's drivetrain in about 20 minutes on the rare occasion that you want to use it for loaded touring.

[fatboy]

I'm torn! I am soon in the market for a treat bike. My head is telling me a Spa Ti tourer whicj I love (I have a steel Spa tourer home brew which would become my commuter bike) but I can't stop thinking about the elan. I only occasionally do fully loaded touring. If I got a steel fork (an option I believe) would it make a good tourer?

I've used the same bike for commuting and touring, which frees up the other bike to be something a bit more nimble. You could keep a separate set of cassette, chain rings and chain for touring, allowing you to refresh your tourer's drivetrain in about 20 minutes on the rare occasion that you want to use it for loaded touring.

More thinking about geometry, stability with a load, heel clearance for panniers etc than low gears (I gear all my bikes low).

[531colin]

..........
More thinking about geometry, stability with a load, heel clearance for panniers etc than low gears (I gear all my bikes low).

I know Royston (Herts.) is 3 hours drive or less now most of the roundabouts are gone from the A1.....

however....what size tourer are you on? ....geometries are all on Spa website, so you can directly compare chainstay length (for heel clearance)
In terms of stability, the steering geometry varies a bit with size on the Elan (due to commercially available carbon forks being 45mm offset)
None of the Elans have less stable steering geometry than Surly's Trucker.
But two or three things......Differences between a Spa steel tourer and a Spa titanium tourer are going to be slight or even marginal. I would say if you are going to run 2 bikes, you should look for a bigger difference between the 2 bikes.
I'm confused over your use for the Elan.....you say you seldom tour "fully loaded" but you're talking about a steel fork for a 4-pannier setup on the Elan?
A steel tourer is always going to have a stiffer back end than a titanium bike.....titanium is less stiff than steel, and there isn't any more room between the chainwheel and the tyre on a titanium bike than there is on a steel bike. Your existing steel tourer with its steel fork will do "fully loaded" .....and rough handling is unlikely to do more than cosmetic damage.
I'm concerned that if you put a steel fork on the Elan, (and the associated big tready tyres, heavy wheels, hub dynamo.....) you will turn a bike that has the potential to be a gazelle into a sort of water buffalo.
My alternative proposal is to keep the Elan set up for what its good for....putting a grin on your face......with the carbon fork, and 32mm slicks or cyclocross tyres. (Theres a picture of me "playing" on this thread https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=113501&start=15) Its not a fragile bike, its quite up to commuting, if you want to take the steel tourer off the road so you can service it before you go fully loaded touring. (In fact, through the winter, commuting with discs is an attractive thought) The Elan is well up for lightweight touring, B&B for example, and also the club run or a bit of bridlepathing.

[fatboy]

Colin,

Thanks for the response. I ride 54cm tourer and I'd definitely visit before spending nearly 2 grand. If I bought a Ti tourer that'd be the third one in Hitchin (that I know about, plus a few steel audaxes and my steel tourer, Spa must be doing something right)

I run 3 bikes (plus a folder which isn't relevant). I have an audax bike and 2 tourers, one of which is for commuting (when I started commuting I only had one bike and upgraded it over time, then realised I had enough for a complete bike. I've found that having a dedicated tourer is liberating as the odd squeak here and there doesn't matter). What I want to do is sell off the hack and demote the Spa steel as a tourer but get a nice replacement. I understand that the delta will be small (but since it's a bitser it might be bigger than if I had a pucker spa tourer). And yes I do want a hub dynamo......so I think that the tourer is more for me, but when I visit Spa (my wife wants to go to Harrogate but knows where I want to go) I may change my mind.....

[531colin]

Yeah, come and ride the test bikes.
The Audax is (I think) Spa's best seller, its a nice ride and it fits with what most people want to do (Tarmac, day rides, the odd B&B weekend). But I never got one, the tracks pull at me, and dual pivot clearances don't really work for that.
The Elan is difficult to pigeon-hole....with slicks, the ride is on the lines of an audax bike, but the versatility/practicality are that of a tourer. (but probably not expedition)

[fatboy]

Yeah, come and ride the test bikes.
The Audax is (I think) Spa's best seller, its a nice ride and it fits with what most people want to do (Tarmac, day rides, the odd B&B weekend). But I never got one, the tracks pull at me, and dual pivot clearances don't really work for that.
The Elan is difficult to pigeon-hole....with slicks, the ride is on the lines of an audax bike, but the versatility/practicality are that of a tourer. (but probably not expedition)

I think that my ideal fleet would be Audax (Spa to replace my Dawes!), Ti tourer as nice bike and steel tourer as commuter (to replace my old Dawes Horizon). If I were to get an elan it might be instead of my audax bike.

The joy of bikes and forums is playing the what if game! Really helps when you can play what if with the designer.