Terrorist vehicle attacks -Shoot the driver

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Elizabethsdad
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Terrorist vehicle attacks -Shoot the driver

Postby Elizabethsdad » 20 Apr 2017, 7:40am

Just read in the news on BBC that police are now changing policy in the wake of recent attacks involving vehicles to 'shoot the driver' as the least worst option to end the attack. How long I wonder before some idiot driver who routinely drives aggressively gets shot at?

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tykeboy2003
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby tykeboy2003 » 20 Apr 2017, 8:38am

Elizabethsdad wrote:How long I wonder before some idiot driver who routinely drives aggressively gets shot at?


Can't think of a more deserving case....

thirdcrank
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Apr 2017, 9:08am

It didn't work in Nice, with a lot of routinely armed police already on the route of the lorry. Here's a pic, chosen from many on the internet, of the cab with plenty of bullet holes.
th.jpg
th.jpg (25.14 KiB) Viewed 603 times

I'd see this as a matter of logistics (and ballistics) rather than any change in the law. Criminal violence can be met with reasonable force, but with a routinely unarmed police service, if you have the intelligence (as in information) to predict an attack using a vehicle, then other physical methods may be better. It needs a lot of firepower to stop a truck, as this picture and other from Nice illustrate.

eileithyia
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby eileithyia » 20 Apr 2017, 9:17am

Given that not all our police (allegedly) are armed, how long will it take to mobilise an armed officer....
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brynpoeth
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Apr 2017, 4:31pm

Shoot the tyres, is it possible to drive when they are flat?

The cops already have *stingers* for this porpoise
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reohn2
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby reohn2 » 21 Apr 2017, 6:05pm

Assuming there's armed police officers present at what point do they decide to open fire?

There's a case locally going through the courts ATM where a suspected armed robber was shot dead sitting in a car on a car park minding his own business.
Whilst he was 'known' to police he was unarmed and wasn't causing anyone concern,I'd wait until this particular case reaches a conclusion before speculating as to whether,when and where to shoot people on the street.

After the Nice incident in conversation with someone about it he was adamant they should have shot him sooner,saying lives could've been saved.
But at what point is the decision taken and by whom when to open fire,that's if(and it's a big one)there's armed police present.

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landsurfer
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby landsurfer » 21 Apr 2017, 6:14pm

We where always taught to shoot to the torso ... the standard target is of a compact torso, head profile.
Shooting the tyres and other stuff is the fayre of the movies.
Head shots and torso shots are stoppers.
With a 7.62 or .308 round.
5.56 ..... not always a stopper, even if a "tumble " round.
Last edited by landsurfer on 22 Apr 2017, 2:16pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 Apr 2017, 6:20pm

brynpoeth wrote:Shoot the tyres, is it possible to drive when they are flat?

The cops already have *stingers* for this porpoise

Stingers are designed to bring a vehicle to a controlled halt, so no use in this context. Realistically the only option is to kill the attacker.

thirdcrank
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Apr 2017, 6:33pm

Fings ain't wot thy used ter be.

Here's a well-executed Traffic Signal no 1 to stop traffic approaching from the front.

th1VQZ8BZG.jpg
th1VQZ8BZG.jpg (20.94 KiB) Viewed 420 times

Once the vehicle has stopped, if it turns out that the driver is armed "Just give me the gun, sonny, and nobody will get hurt" is the approved form of words.

andrewk
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby andrewk » 22 Apr 2017, 12:11am

landsurfer wrote:We where always taught to shoot to the torso ... the standard target is of a compact torso, head profile.
Shooting the tyres and other stuff is the fayre of the movies.
Head shots and torso shots are stoppers.
With a 7.62 or .308 round.
5.62 ..... not always a stopper, even if a "tumble " round.


The cops only have 5.56 and 9mm in general issue/carry, they can call on snipers with 7.62 but it isn't available as an instant response. 5.56 will penetrate windscreens and car/lorry doors so should be adequate.

peetee
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby peetee » 22 Apr 2017, 12:54am

We where always taught to shoot to the torso


We were always taught the three Rs - and I thought my school was rough!
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby The utility cyclist » 22 Apr 2017, 3:19am

Shoot to kill policy was already effectively in place, just described as 'incapacitate', this was/is for extreme circumstances, so unless armed police are going to be more jittery/trigger happy nothing should change.
My problem is that now project fear is well and truly in motion and the powers that be are slowly edging towards a police state that is being backed by joe public because of the fear created/over-exaggeration of the harm. If as much effort and manpower was used on the real threats to our society, that kill, maim and destroy families lives every day I'd be more than happy to back a shoot to incapacitate policy on those culprits. :twisted:

Bonefishblues
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby Bonefishblues » 22 Apr 2017, 8:15am

peetee wrote:
We where always taught to shoot to the torso


We were always taught the three Rs - and I thought my school was rough!

Boom and indeed tish.

brynpoeth
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby brynpoeth » 22 Apr 2017, 8:26am

Bonefishblues wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Shoot the tyres, is it possible to drive when they are flat?

The cops already have *stingers* for this porpoise

Stingers are designed to bring a vehicle to a controlled halt, so no use in this context. Realistically the only option is to kill the attacker.


If the driver is shot dead he may well collapse onto the wheel with his foot down on the throttle
Maybe road vehicles should have *dead man's handles* like trains
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Shoot the driver

Postby [XAP]Bob » 22 Apr 2017, 9:47am

Or maybe we should get autonomous vehicles as fast as possible...

Shoot to kill is fine, but already too late. I presume this applies to speeding as well...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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