Cycling UK Forum

old_windbag wrote: I think outside of our modern western lifestyle we'd not be talking of these "gender" identity issues. I can't picture people within amazon tribes having the same issues because they spend their time surviving not analysing and categorising. They are how we once were, their focus on living+surviving, not all the distractions we have in our comfortable spoon fed media driven western lives.

Many indigenous people recognise more than two genders. Some recognise many. Some accept a wide variety of gender identities, and some do not. I don't think that how people do or don't recognise non-binary genders has very much to do with a focus on living / surviving. Even people living in subsistence situations still fall in love, have families, express themselves through what they wear or how they adorn their bodies.

Vorpal wrote:

old_windbag wrote: I think outside of our modern western lifestyle we'd not be talking of these "gender" identity issues. I can't picture people within amazon tribes having the same issues because they spend their time surviving not analysing and categorising. They are how we once were, their focus on living+surviving, not all the distractions we have in our comfortable spoon fed media driven western lives.

Many indigenous people recognise more than two genders. Some recognise many. Some accept a wide variety of gender identities, and some do not. I don't think that how people do or don't recognise non-binary genders has very much to do with a focus on living / surviving. Even people living in subsistence situations still fall in love, have families, express themselves through what they wear or how they adorn their bodies.

There is an infinite number of genders on the spectrum of human sexuality.

Imagine my horror when I was recently told that the child of a friend had just had a baby boy.

How does xe know which gender identity the child will choose?

I can only hope that xyr parents are more enlightened than xyr grandparents, and don't try to foist the binary identity of boy upon the little mite merely because xe has a penis.

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

blackbike wrote:

Vorpal wrote:

old_windbag wrote: I think outside of our modern western lifestyle we'd not be talking of these "gender" identity issues. I can't picture people within amazon tribes having the same issues because they spend their time surviving not analysing and categorising. They are how we once were, their focus on living+surviving, not all the distractions we have in our comfortable spoon fed media driven western lives.

Many indigenous people recognise more than two genders. Some recognise many. Some accept a wide variety of gender identities, and some do not. I don't think that how people do or don't recognise non-binary genders has very much to do with a focus on living / surviving. Even people living in subsistence situations still fall in love, have families, express themselves through what they wear or how they adorn their bodies.

There is an infinite number of genders on the spectrum of human sexuality.

Imagine my horror when I was recently told that the child of a friend had just had a baby boy.

How does xe know which gender identity the child will choose?

I can only hope that xyr parents are more enlightened than xyr grandparents, and don't try to foist the binary identity of boy upon the little mite merely because xe has a penis.

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

If you have a child you have to work with what you see before you. Apart from a very small number of cases, the great majority of children are born with a clear physical gender. It is in their chromosomes and its physical attributes are clear to see. Most kids grow up to fit roughly with that gender identity. But where a child exhibits persistent problems fitting with that identity a parent must give support and understanding, helping their child to find a comfortable way to be. No big deal. You just get on with it. My own son turned out to be gay, and although it took a bit of getting used to we never tried to tell him it was anything other than okay.

mercalia wrote:Scots excepted

and at £6000pa also say no more. I 'll send my kids to a comp

what are they.JPG

work out before you read the article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39921309

if the kids can then what about the teachers? I bet the choice doesnt got that far? if not then its hypocracy - since the world of work is far more conservative?

I went to private then prep school, and finished with my MSc. How did you do?

State primary, independent grammar but stuck at 2 degrees. Been thinking of a third for some time but I've been out of education for a long time now.

BTW my grammar was effectively a grammar from before Elizabethan times. A church school set up to teach local kids from a wide background. It got a royal charter so wasn't shut down. It eventually became a state grammar then being in a Labour stronghold with a Labour minister as the mp it was on the hit list to be turned into a comprehensive. Parents and governors turned it into an independent grammar with a mix of private fees, state grants for bright kids from poorer backgrounds and subsidised scholarships from private fees. Basically the Labour council could not stop state money giving impoverished kids a good education, it just limited the number of such kids getting that chance.

BTW my school was strict on dress code. Plus only had lasses in sixth form so dresses were a definite minority.

Didn't Manchester university convert toilets into universal ones that anyone could be use? Part of that inclusive idea that male female identification can oppress those who do not identify that way. So people who identify as "they" feel at home.

blackbike wrote:.....xe......xyr....(etc)

I was about to say, "congrats on splendid effort at reforming the English language", until I discovered that the 'pronouns' had merely been pinched from the site linked to....

Of course, sarcasm is all very well, if it doesn't do harm, and easy to recognise especially in the context of the poster's usual style - but one has to remember that gender dysphoria, whilst being a rare condition (estimates vary between 0.05% and 1%), is genuinely troubling for the persons affected.

Something that we in society's majority tended to ignore and suppress in the good old intolerant 1950s and 60s when I was a kid. Sometimes I begin to wonder whether any of my schoolfellows were affected, and yet dared not come out...?

I went to private then prep school, and finished with my MSc. How did you do?

I went to a bog standard comp.

I learned that bragging is rude and that personal anecdote is a poor substitute for proper hypothesis testing in research.

661-Pete wrote:

blackbike wrote:.....xe......xyr....(etc)

I was about to say, "congrats on splendid effort at reforming the English language", until I discovered that the 'pronouns' had merely been pinched from the site linked to....

Of course, sarcasm is all very well, if it doesn't do harm, and easy to recognise especially in the context of the poster's usual style - but one has to remember that gender dysphoria, whilst being a rare condition (estimates vary between 0.05% and 1%), is genuinely troubling for the persons affected.

Something that we in society's majority tended to ignore and suppress in the good old intolerant 1950s and 60s when I was a kid. Sometimes I begin to wonder whether any of my schoolfellows were affected, and yet dared not come out...?

I still vividly recall, while on a family holiday, in London on one of the rail stations seeing a woman being arrested by two burly policemen. Bear in mind I was an innocent 11yo country boy back in the early sixties and it was only listening to my parents I discovered she was a man dressing as a woman.
So I'm sure some of your school fellows would be effected but who would dare 'come out' and risk being locked up? Even now in our 21st century I think those who do identify as a transgender are very brave and certainly won't be doing it as an easy choice.

Not quite the same but family stories abound about the time(s) they were sat in a cafe and a man in drag went into the ladies. Usual outrage. Not about the man wearing women's clothing (although one example they bitched about his 5 o'clock shadow like he wasn't making a good effort with his look). Their outrage was that a man was using the ladies. One time the token male in the group asked them where should he go when he's passing himself off as a woman?!

and risk being locked up?

Worse still would have been the 'Turing' treatment. I still think that was one of the most infamous and shameful episodes in British legal history. Hopefully we've moved on from there.

ChrisOntLancs wrote:the toys you play with are hardly biological.

Erm...

"We compared the interactions of 34 rhesus monkeys, living within a 135 monkey troop, with human wheeled toys and plush toys. Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization."

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I went to private then prep school, and finished with my MSc. How did you do?

Does it matter? We all contribute to society in different ways. Having an MSc doesn't tell us anything about how you contribute, or whether you are successful.

axel_knutt wrote:

ChrisOntLancs wrote:the toys you play with are hardly biological.

Erm...

"We compared the interactions of 34 rhesus monkeys, living within a 135 monkey troop, with human wheeled toys and plush toys. Male monkeys, like boys, showed consistent and strong preferences for wheeled toys, while female monkeys, like girls, showed greater variability in preferences. Thus, the magnitude of preference for wheeled over plush toys differed significantly between males and females. The similarities to human findings demonstrate that such preferences can develop without explicit gendered socialization."

interesting, but they've got some ways to go before i shift on my position! file next to "study suggests bananas are bad for you". with respect, if bananas are bad for me i want to be the first to know.

Vorpal wrote:

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I went to private then prep school, and finished with my MSc. How did you do?

Does it matter? We all contribute to society in different ways. Having an MSc doesn't tell us anything about how you contribute, or whether you are successful.

The OP seems to think it does, hence this thread. I couldn't care less.

Retired when I was 47, so having a retirement while still young enough to exploit it, with the cash to do so, I think was a success. No debts, loans, finance, overdraft, and 2 houses with no mortgage wasn't bad going either. Private Ed never did me any harm, so I shan't knock it.

Lance Dopestrong wrote:

Vorpal wrote:

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I went to private then prep school, and finished with my MSc. How did you do?

Does it matter? We all contribute to society in different ways. Having an MSc doesn't tell us anything about how you contribute, or whether you are successful.

The OP seems to think it does, hence this thread. I couldn't care less.

Retired when I was 47, so having a retirement while still young enough to exploit it, with the cash to do so, I think was a success. No debts, loans, finance, overdraft, and 2 houses with no mortgage wasn't bad going either. Private Ed never did me any harm, so I shan't knock it.

I don't think I would say anything against it either, except that it should be available to every child, free.