Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread

[Ben@Forest]

Interesting that while the left (broadly and I don't necessarily mean just on this forum) wants to highlight the DUP's socially conservative agenda they don't want to point out that it is anti-austerity, The DUP have consistently opposed spending cuts and policies such as the 'bedroom tax'.

I wonder if, under a PR voting system, the Tories were proposing an alliance with a conservative Muslim-based political party the left would be screaming foul quite so loudly?

[bovlomov]

I wonder if, under a PR voting system, the Tories were proposing an alliance with a conservative Muslim-based political party the left would be screaming foul quite so loudly?

That would be an interesting dilemma.

In any spectrum there will be extremes, and I see nothing wrong with extremists being co-opted by the mainstream. I do see a problem with extremists being co-opted by a PM who only the week before was promising to outlaw extremism.

[meic]

How do you square DUP and Sinn Fein being extremists with them having been elected to 94% of the available seats between them?

That is the definition of mainstream in a democracy, isnt it?

[bovlomov]

How do you square DUP and Sinn Fein being extremists with them having been elected to 94% of the available seats between them?

That is the definition of mainstream in a democracy, isnt it?

According to NI politics they are mainstream. According to UK politics they are extremists.

Someone should ask May what she understands by the term, but I think she'd have difficulty finding a definition that included Corbyn but excluded the DUP.

[AlaninWales]

Only because they wouldnt play that game. If they would play then they would have been welcomed into a rainbow coalition against the Tories.

My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) was that Corbyn had ruled out any coalition: Which makes his statement that he Labour is ready to serve as a minority government (somehow more legitimate than the Tories) somewhat confusing as he could not command enough votes alone.

Meanwhile, I don't think this has been shared yet: http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn?mbid=social_facebook_paid_cm_corbynsbook

[horizon]

Interesting that while the left (broadly and I don't necessarily mean just on this forum) wants to highlight the DUP's socially conservative agenda they don't want to point out that it is anti-austerity, The DUP have consistently opposed spending cuts and policies such as the 'bedroom tax'.

It's been picked up by the media quite a lot now and the reason why some manifesto proposals are out of the window. I agree with you - their anti-austerity stance (and anti- hard Brexit stance) is more significant.

[Psamathe]

Misleading, as normal, for the Independent.
They were trying to stop Scotland from converting NI citizens from civil partnership to marriage.

They were only trying to keep that which was NOT devolved in line with what was devolved for their own registered "licences".

I was not aware there was such a thing as a "Northern Ireland Citizen". Do they get different passports or anything. I appreciate that somebody born in Northern Ireland has the right to apply for Irish Citizenship but I thought they were still just British Citizens.

So does than mean that if I (I'm British) go and get married in Scotland it does not count if I move to Northern Ireland. Or if I get married in England, does it count if I get move to Northern Ireland. And what would happen if the British government lobbied the French government to stop Brits getting married in France (because France in effect has different laws which are outside the control of the UK, just as NI has different laws that are outside the control of the UK just as Scotland has different laws that are outside the control or Norther Ireland!).

Ian

[landsurfer]

How do you square DUP and Sinn Fein being extremists with them having been elected to 94% of the available seats between them?

That is the definition of mainstream in a democracy, isnt it?

Good point meic .... is some one accusing 94% of the population of Northern Ireland of being extremist ???

With Ulster's previous history even i have to accept that the leopards can and have changed their spots ..ish ... maybe ..

[pete75]

How do you square DUP and Sinn Fein being extremists with them having been elected to 94% of the available seats between them?

That is the definition of mainstream in a democracy, isnt it?

Good point meic .... is some one accusing 94% of the population of Northern Ireland of being extremist ???

With Ulster's previous history even i have to accept that the leopards can and have changed their spots ..ish ... maybe ..

No because 94% of the population didn't vote for them. Funny though how more vote for those pair that the old non extremist unionist and nationalist parties the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.

[pete75]

Misleading, as normal, for the Independent.
They were trying to stop Scotland from converting NI citizens from civil partnership to marriage.

They were only trying to keep that which was NOT devolved in line with what was devolved for their own registered "licences".

What they were trying to do was to stop the Scottish authorities from converting a civil partnership for a Northern Irish gay couple into a marriage. If the Scots choose to do that it's nothing to do with the DUP. That's what the article in the Independent said and it wasn't misleading. England will only convert English civil partnerships into a marriage Scotland will convert any civil partnership into a marriage. What's wrong with that?

[pete75]

I wonder if, under a PR voting system, the Tories were proposing an alliance with a conservative Muslim-based political party the left would be screaming foul quite so loudly?

Who knows but one thing is certain many on the right would be.

[pwa]

The media seem to consider a hung parliament to be a recipe for disaster, with weak and unstable government likely. But if we had PR that is how it would always be, with small parties like the DUP wielding a disproportionate amount of power. The tail wagging the dog, as they say.

[thirdcrank]

The media seem to consider a hung parliament to be a recipe for disaster, with weak and unstable government likely. But if we had PR that is how it would always be, with small parties like the DUP wielding a disproportionate amount of power. The tail wagging the dog, as they say.

Much depends on which form of PR is used. What we have now is a relatively small number of voters in a few constituencies deciding it for everybody. Without commenting on the merits of the manifesto commitment to scrap student loans, it's worth mentioning that it's being suggested that it swung the outcome of some key constituencies with a high proportion of students.

Whatever claims are made for first-past-the-post and strong (and stable?) government, it hasn't come up with the goods this crucial time.

[mjr]

The media seem to consider a hung parliament to be a recipe for disaster, with weak and unstable government likely. But if we had PR that is how it would always be, with small parties like the DUP wielding a disproportionate amount of power. The tail wagging the dog, as they say.

That's the Murdoch/Rothermere/Desmond accusation but it's not necessarily true... you can end up with a situation like France, with a number of small and medium-sized parties formed into broad coalitions and government policies decided variously by negotiation and their relative electoral results; or you can end up with a situation with fewer larger parties like Germany, where I'd not say that the Greens or Free Democrats were that small or wielding that disproportionate a power, and there have been Grand Coalitions recently with the two largest parties taking power.

[Psamathe]

The media seem to consider a hung parliament to be a recipe for disaster, with weak and unstable government likely. But if we had PR that is how it would always be, with small parties like the DUP wielding a disproportionate amount of power. The tail wagging the dog, as they say.

I suspect that the way people vote is sub-conciously affected by the electoral system. People vote strategically as they know that First Past The Post has only one winner. Use a more PR based system and their wishes can still be reflected even if they don't vote for the one "winner".

Also, I think in the current situation the resulting Government is more likely to be a recipe for disaster because May is totally useless when it comes to listening to others, terrible at working with others and taking account of their views. She works on the basis that she's boss and she makes the decisions and people do what she says - and such attitudes don't work well when you need other parties' cooperation.

Ian