Page 5 of 16
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 9 Jun 2017, 11:25pm
by reohn2
landsurfer wrote:mjr wrote:landsurfer wrote:And she won the most seats and got the most votes ...... result ....
And apparently every marginal seat she visited was lost
And still won .... Ha ha ..... Labour lost ... Again ..... Result!!!
Do you really think this a Result?
This is catastrophe on a grand scale that goes waayyy beyond party politricks
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 12:00am
by pete75
At the last election we heard a lot from Tory supporters about the undesirability of a Labour government with support from the Scottish Nationalists. Tail wagging the dog was one of their favorite phrases. They seem to be keeping quiet about the prospect of a Northern Irish tale wagging the dog. A fairly extreme Northern Irish tail at that, a party founded by Ian Paisley.
Something that helped make the peace agreement work in Ulster was that the Westminster government had always taken a neutral stance. This will now end as the Conservatives are getting into bed with the Unionists. Anyone else noticed how May has starting calling the Tories the Conservative and Unionist party, something not heard for years and which shows definite bias towards one side in Northern Ireland.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 12:11am
by rualexander
Ben@Forest wrote:..... Charles I was described by another European monarch as 'the wisest fool in Christendom'.....
That was James the Sixth & First.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 12:30am
by Vorpal
pete75 wrote:At the last election we heard a lot from Tory supporters about the undesirability of a Labour government with support from the Scottish Nationalists. Tail wagging the dog was one of their favorite phrases. They seem to be keeping quiet about the prospect of a Northern Irish tale wagging the dog. A fairly extreme Northern Irish tail at that, a party founded by Ian Paisley.
Something that helped make the peace agreement work in Ulster was that the Westminster government had always taken a neutral stance. This will now end as the Conservatives are getting into bed with the Unionists. Anyone else noticed how May has starting calling the Tories the Conservative and Unionist party, something not heard for years and which shows definite bias towards one side in Northern Ireland.
The government in Westminster has never had a neutral stance. But they could, until now, play pretend nicely.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 8:10am
by Cyril Haearn
661-Pete wrote:I'm disappointed at the lack of flippancy in this thread, but so be it. Speaking as someone with a maths background, perhaps I should urge people to consider derivatives rather than static values. Maybe even second derivatives? What might be the value of:
d² (tory votes)
dt²
then? Negative?
Please explain. I took A-level maths but failed
Diolch
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 8:15am
by francovendee
reohn2 wrote:Edwards wrote:So the tories are now the coalition of chaos.
The gamble failed and Mrs May has made a mess of things.
Ain't that the truth,she thought it was a walk over,
How wrong can a set of clever idiots be?
Spot on, She, and her advisers thought they'd have a landslide victory and got it all wrong. Whilst Labour didn't win, her position is now very much worsened, in spite of all the die hard Tories saying she still got more votes.
I'm so pleased that the young have been persuaded to get out and vote. Us old fogeys have have too much influence for too long at election time.
I'm sure if she could turn the clock back she'd not have reneged on her earlier insistence about not calling an election.
Corbyn didn't win but the Tories are much weakened, as the months ahead will show.
I'm sure the support of the DUP and the Scottish Conservative party will cause her lots of difficulties in trying to get agreement
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:01am
by 661-Pete
Cyril Haearn wrote:661-Pete wrote:I'm disappointed at the lack of flippancy in this thread, but so be it. Speaking as someone with a maths background, perhaps I should urge people to consider derivatives rather than static values. Maybe even second derivatives? What might be the value of:
d² (tory votes)
dt²
then? Negative?
Please explain. I took A-level maths but failed
Diolch
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/33283/33283-pdf.pdf
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:02am
by Edwards
I like the irony that the government is being propped up by what was the political wing of a terrorist organisation.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:15am
by thirdcrank
The practical point about depending on the DUP, as with any party with a geographic base at some distance from London, is being able to muster all your troops at short notice for the unexpected divisions. That type of chicanery is testing even for MP's with London constituencies. I don't know much about the politics of Northern Ireland, to the extent that I've had to check my spelling of Sinn Fein, but there's presumably no absolute certainty that if they thought it appropriate they would not decide to take their seats. Partisan treatment of the DUP might lead to their doing so. That would largely neutralise the DUP when the numbers are close.
In the bits and pieces of punditry I've seen there's been speculation about whether JC's sparkling campaigning will be matched by effective Parliamentary leadership. This is about the Party Whips. JC is renowned for ignoring them so it depends on a poacher-turned-gamekeeper scenario. There also has to be co-ordination across the Opposition parties if they are to defeat the Govt on a confidence vote.
IMO, the most significant question, especially in the short term, is how Tory backbenchers view TM's leadership: this has become an unexpected chance to review their fairly recent election of her as their leader. The last few months might now be viewed as a probationary period. She may be able to stay on if no strong alternative emerges, but Tory divisions over Europe will be as strong as ever in the longer term. Europe being the single subject that cannot be "put on a back-burner" "kicked into the long grass" or whatever: it's important and time is passing.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:31am
by mjr
reohn2 wrote:landsurfer wrote:mjr wrote:And apparently every marginal seat she visited was lost
And still won .... Ha ha ..... Labour lost ... Again ..... Result!!!
Do you really think this a Result?
This is catastrophe on a grand scale that goes waayyy beyond party politricks
Not sure about catastrophe, but I think it's fairer to say that no one won.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:51am
by pwa
thirdcrank wrote:The practical point about depending on the DUP, as with any party with a geographic base at some distance from London, is being able to muster all your troops at short notice for the unexpected divisions. That type of chicanery is testing even for MP's with London constituencies. I don't know much about the politics of Northern Ireland, to the extent that I've had to check my spelling of Sinn Fein, but there's presumably no absolute certainty that if they thought it appropriate they would not decide to take their seats. Partisan treatment of the DUP might lead to their doing so. That would largely neutralise the DUP when the numbers are close.
In the bits and pieces of punditry I've seen there's been speculation about whether JC's sparkling campaigning will be matched by effective Parliamentary leadership. This is about the Party Whips. JC is renowned for ignoring them so it depends on a poacher-turned-gamekeeper scenario. There also has to be co-ordination across the Opposition parties if they are to defeat the Govt on a confidence vote.
IMO, the most significant question, especially in the short term, is how Tory backbenchers view TM's leadership: this has become an unexpected chance to review their fairly recent election of her as their leader. The last few months might now be viewed as a probationary period. She may be able to stay on if no strong alternative emerges, but Tory divisions over Europe will be as strong as ever in the longer term. Europe being the single subject that cannot be "put on a back-burner" "kicked into the long grass" or whatever: it's important and time is passing.
It is very unlikely that Sinn Fein will take their seats in Westminster, whatever advantage they might see in doing so. Staying away is their long established way of showing that they do not see NI as part of the UK. They would find it very difficult to participate in the Commons.
I want to know what the DUP's shopping list is.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 9:56am
by 661-Pete
Human nature innit?! Every side of the argument is going to boast "yah boo! we won!" or something similar.
My respect goes to the person who has the most to cheer about, Thursday night.
Lord Buckethead. With a creditable showing of 249 votes - more than double his previous attempt - and a manifesto chock-full of the most delightful goodies* - definitely the man of the moment, someone to be watched. Way2go, man! Respect!
*especially:
15. Free bikes for everyone, to help combat obesity, traffic congestion and bike theft.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 10:01am
by landsurfer
mjr wrote:[
Not sure about catastrophe, but I think it's fairer to say that no one won.
Its a maths thing ....
Who got the most votes ?
Who got the most seats ?
They would be winner ?
It's not about morals or semantics, it's about numbers.
However much you dislike the Tories .... they won the June the 8th 2017 election.
Labour lost.
Lib Dems lost.
SNP lost.
Dup Lost.
Greens lost.
et al.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 10:15am
by reohn2
landsurfer wrote:mjr wrote:[
Not sure about catastrophe, but I think it's fairer to say that no one won.
Its a maths thing ....
Who got the most votes ?
Who got the most seats ?
They would be winner ?
It's not about morals or semantics, it's about numbers.
However much you dislike the Tories .... they won the June the 8th 2017 election.
Labour lost.
Lib Dems lost.
SNP lost.
Dup Lost.
Greens lost.
et al.
I think the point is that if you went into battle with far superior weaponry,resourses and numbers than the enemy.and you were the last solder standing with devastation all around you, you would've won no doubt.
But where would it have got you other than home alive?
The term hollow victory springs to mind,it's possible to win yet lose.
Re: Hung Parliament means Hung Parliament - the Hung Parliament thread
Posted: 10 Jun 2017, 10:20am
by PH
landsurfer wrote:Its a maths thing ....
Who got the most votes ?
Who got the most seats ?
They would be winner ?
et al.
We have the system we have and rejected the opportunity to change it a few years ago, but the relationship between votes and seats isn't simple.
There is no doubt which is the largest party, there's also no doubt that they now have fewer seats than they did before the election.
So if you have £100 more than me, and you drop £50, you still have £50 more than me.
Would it be right to say you hadn't lost anything?
If so I'll PM you my address and you can send me the £50
