On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

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Dingdong
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by Dingdong »

It's a classic case of digital (Battery assist) vs analogue (legs). Think vinyl vs MP3, or 4K helmet mounted cameras vs Kodak Instamatic, or Google Maps vs a piece of paper, Betamax vs DVD!

There will always be enthusiasts who like things done the old way, but the first time I saw a battery assist bike, a little light came on in my head: that's what everyone will be riding. I just didn't think it would happen so quickly.
reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

millimole wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 2:31pm
reohn2 wrote: Mopeds only need pedal assist to begin moving upto perhaps 5mph,after which the motor takes over and independently powers the vehicle,though pedal assist may be needed on the steepest of hills,such machines need driving licence,reg plate,MOT,third party insurance and helmet.
This may well have been the old definition of a moped, but the current one is as follows :
"A moped (category AM) is defined as having a maximum design speed over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not exceeding 45 km/h (28 mph); or a light quadricycle with an unladen weight not more than 350kg and up to 45km/h."
The current licence class required is (I believe) P as a minimum.

I have a (legal) e-moped an NIU UQI - and frankly, a maximum speed of 28mph is far too slow for modern roads (even 30mph roads) - it's probably going in the spring!
I stand corrected
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reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

jimlews wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:12pm I'm aware of the common ancestry - pedal cycle // motor cycle // e bike etc.

It's all part of a misguided notion that everything has to be made easier.
So fast (easier) "food" has led to an epidemic of obesity, ably assisted by car culture
and now e bikes (which discourage active travel).
I don't think Ebikes(pedelecs)fall into that catagory for the reasons Cugel gives.
The only difference that I can see between the "stink wheel" devices of former times
and todays electric bicycles is that the pollution they cause has been deferred to the
end of the battery life. And then there is the slave labour mining the rare elements required
to produce them...
There are far far worse things humanity is proud of producing.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Cugel
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by Cugel »

Cowsham wrote: 30 Nov 2022, 12:13am The ebike is just another enabling tool I use so I embrace it.

Like the mobile phone which let's me have more independence.
Them mobile phones are not so much enablers as panopticons striving every minute to gain control of your behaviours & beliefs .... and often succeeding! I can only recommend a disinterested auditor, who will examine you for these parasitic virtual mind-suckers then hopefully give you a purge, along with a lump hammer with which to crush the evil device, preferably in a cleansing ritual fashion in front of those who love you and will be glad o have you back without all them conspiracy theories and lusts for pointless gewgaws* swirling about in yer bonce. :-)

Cugel wearing a virtual tinhat made of no-phone.

* This category of gaw does not include e-bikes.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
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Cowsham
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by Cowsham »

Dingdong wrote: 30 Nov 2022, 7:35am
the first time I saw a battery assist bike, a little light came on in my head:
The little light that came on in my head was -- " what can I use this thing for ? -- this is bound to have a valid use in whats left of my life "

So when I got a sail on one -- "ah travel to work with no sweating or changing of clothes or paying lots for fuel and enjoying the ride on my magic carpet into the bargain "

Not so much a little light as a floodlight!
I am here. Where are you?
reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

jimlews wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:12pm The only difference that I can see between the "stink wheel" devices of former times
and todays electric bicycles is that the pollution they cause has been deferred to the
end of the battery life. And then there is the slave labour mining the rare elements required
to produce them...

What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
mattheus
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by mattheus »

reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:21am
jimlews wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:12pm The only difference that I can see between the "stink wheel" devices of former times
and todays electric bicycles is that the pollution they cause has been deferred to the
end of the battery life. And then there is the slave labour mining the rare elements required
to produce them...

What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
What of them?
(Surely you're not saying that because your [family member] threw away some radio batteries last week, you now do not care about the pollution caused by any batteries? )
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horizon
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by horizon »

reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:21am
What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
AFAIK, conventional batteries are successfully recycled nowadays and the metals recovered, reused. That doesn't mean to say however that everyone properly disposes of their batteries - most presumably still go in the rubbish.

AIUI, recycling is much more problematic for lithium-ion batteries (mainly due to handling issues). That doesn't mean it cannot be done. I would like to hear from any forum member whose bike battery has come to the end of its life, how they disposed of it and any problems they faced, though it is of course early days yet.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Cugel
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by Cugel »

mattheus wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 9:03am
reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:21am
jimlews wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:12pm The only difference that I can see between the "stink wheel" devices of former times
and todays electric bicycles is that the pollution they cause has been deferred to the
end of the battery life. And then there is the slave labour mining the rare elements required
to produce them...

What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
What of them?
(Surely you're not saying that because your [family member] threw away some radio batteries last week, you now do not care about the pollution caused by any batteries? )
There's a case of batteries (many sizes and voltages) in our hoose. All of them except those coin batteries are rechargeables of good quality (mosty eneloop). I've had many of them for at least 15 years and they still power the various devices in which they're employed.

It's a rare event to throw a battery away. When I do, there's a local recycling facility that at least prevents the toxic stuff from percolating into the water table from a landfill site. Perhaps it also extracts something reusable? (I confess that I don't know).

When energy become as cheap as chips because we humans have a change of mind (ha!) and start having an economy based on renewables and recycling, the decomposition of things like batteries into useful feedstocks for other artefacts (also 100% recyclable) will be possible. It's possible now but the processes to do so cost an arm & a leg in energy.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

mattheus wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 9:03am
reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:21am
jimlews wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:12pm The only difference that I can see between the "stink wheel" devices of former times
and todays electric bicycles is that the pollution they cause has been deferred to the
end of the battery life. And then there is the slave labour mining the rare elements required
to produce them...

What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
What of them?
Go figure,it's not that hard.
(Surely you're not saying that because your [family member] threw away some radio batteries last week, you now do not care about the pollution caused by any batteries? )
Did I say a family member or myself did?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

horizon wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 11:20am
reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 8:21am
What of all those use once then discard or rechargable AA,AAA batteries in use in almost every household in the land,if not the world at the end of their usable life,used in various battery powered consumables such as TV remotes,flashlights and bike lights,radios ,etc,etc.
AFAIK, conventional batteries are successfully recycled nowadays and the metals recovered, reused. That doesn't mean to say however that everyone properly disposes of their batteries - most presumably still go in the rubbish.
Are you sure that all spent batteries disposed of properly are recycled?
On your second point I feel I have to agree.
AIUI, recycling is much more problematic for lithium-ion batteries (mainly due to handling issues). That doesn't mean it cannot be done.....
TBH I don't know whether they are any harder or not to recycle than use once AA/AAA,etc type batteries.

What I do know is there's a lot of waste in modern society and we're all more or less guilty of it to some degree.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
mattheus
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Location: Western Europe

Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by mattheus »

reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 2:47pm What I do know is there's a lot of waste in modern society and we're all more or less guilty of it to some degree.
So?
briansnail
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by briansnail »

On BBC yesterday they mentioned a new design of pedal wheelchair. I did a google but could not find.
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reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

mattheus wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 3:34pm
reohn2 wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 2:47pm What I do know is there's a lot of waste in modern society and we're all more or less guilty of it to some degree.
So?
So,that's factual.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
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Re: On the cusp of cycling's greatest revolution

Post by reohn2 »

briansnail wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 3:39pm On BBC yesterday they mentioned a new design of pedal wheelchair. I did a google but could not find.
*************************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage
Perhaps if you were to type recumbent into google you may get a result :wink:

Dons tin hat and takes cover......
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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