Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
fastpedaller
Posts: 3436
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by fastpedaller »

Brucey wrote:I've "flogged several hundred pounds worth of dead horse" on my own behalf and much more than this on behalf of other people.

Most brand-new freehubs are not as good as ones that I have serviced and adjusted correctly, and nor do they last as long without further attention.

The idea that you might throw a wheelset away because you can't be bothered to adjust the bearings in a freewheel body properly baffles belief....

cheers

Also (for me anyway) I relish the challenge of bringing it back from the dead! As regards new freehubs, do you have advice on 'making them better from the start' eg should I try to inject some gear oil in before I use.
User avatar
Gattonero
Posts: 3730
Joined: 31 Jan 2016, 1:35pm
Location: London

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Gattonero »

There's a lot to learn by reviving -or trying to- old stuff that was disposed. In fact, this is how most people starts their careers.
Being an hoarder, I tend to accumulate various stuff that "it's going to be useful to make this..." and most often sits there for ages either dismantled or half-done because of time/facilities constraints, or simply because I haven't acquired yet the last two bits :lol:

In the case of bicycle parts, I think straightforward what's the most logic thing to do, and the one that will satisfy the "time vs money vs lifespan", the last bit is equally important for me, I don't like and frankly do not have time to patch over and over something that is slowly dying. In the same way, I like things to work well, so rough bearings are not acceptable here: fix it for good or replace.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Mark Berry
Posts: 75
Joined: 11 Nov 2009, 10:03am
Location: London

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Mark Berry »

I seem to have opened up a debate. Regrettably I still find myself unable to open up that freehub!

Now I am a tinkerer and a hoarder too, I like a mechanical challenge, I enjoy bringing life back to devices which most people would chuck, and I don't have to put a value on the time I waste in the shed.

Yet what have I done? I've bought my son a set of Shimano 501 wheels from PlanetX, for £70. Why? Well he's back to university next month at the other end of the country, away from our tools and boxes of bits. I wouldn't trust those Fulcrums to last until Christmas even if I bought a new freehub: there's no reason to expect the replacement to last any better than the original - less than a spring term! With a bit of grease and adjustment I'd expect those Shimano hubs to survive Newcastle's worst.

I will not give up though, Erudin's pictures are an inspiration, and I do hope to make that wheel into a 'Sunday Best'. Brucy's suggestion that it might be a Quando/KT/Joytech gives possibilities too.

Thanks again for your help, Mark
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Brucey »

Gattonero wrote: .... but even when I was working as a Courier my thoughts were "spending 2-3hrs trying to fix somethign that would still be old, or make 3hrs overtime to make more money and get a new one?"
Besides, the old parts work as spare when in need and no other alternative is on sight.


As I mentioned previously several times, after they have been serviced properly they are 'better than new' in that

-if they are new and unworn they have zero free play in after they have been serviced correctly and
- if they are used then they are (unlike nearly all new ones) still play-free even if the freewheel bearings are not perfectly smooth any more.
- if there is any free play the wear rate is vastly higher than if there is no free play in the bearings.

It may offend your sensibilities if the freewheel bearings are slightly rough-feeling but that is all it will do; it has zero impact on the actual running of the machine. By contrast the idea of putting a knackered freehub body back on a wheel without doing anything to it first, having 'kept it as a spare' seems like utter madness to me.

fastpedaller wrote: .....Also (for me anyway) I relish the challenge of bringing it back from the dead! As regards new freehubs, do you have advice on 'making them better from the start' eg should I try to inject some gear oil in before I use.


My advice is to;

a) use them for a short while ( a few hundred miles tops)
b) re-shim them and
c) to use a semi-fluid grease inside them which contains good corrosion inhibitors.

Gear oil is OK but it does not have enough corrosion inhibitors and it will leak out unless the backside seal is both present and in perfect condition. A #2 grease is too thick and will gum up the pawls too easily.

The idea of using a freehub body for a short while is that the bearing surfaces will be 'run in' and won't wear more in service, provided they are adjusted to be play-free. Most freehub bodies don't have finish-ground bearing surfaces and in these the first few microns of wear will occur even if the new freehub is adjusted to be play-free.

Obviously with a few exceptions you don't know if the bearing surfaces inside the freehub body are ground or not so you might as well use the freehub for a short while before adjusting it, provided the weather doesn't get inside before decent/sufficient lubricant is added.

It is as well to note that you may as well overhaul a freehub body when it is basically new; if you don't it will (unless by some miracle it is genuinely play-free) wear and need re-shimming sooner or later anyway. As well as accelerating wear, any free play helps the seals to fail on the freehub body too.

If you do what is required when the parts are undamaged and keep them well-lubricated, the chances are that the freehub body will outlast the wheelset.

If you do nothing to it, the chances are excellent that it will be the first thing to fail.


Even with rough-ish freehub bodies, the chances are excellent that when you service them, it will be the only time this will be required, i.e. the freehub body will not be the thing that limits the life of the wheelset.

I think that I have only gone into the same freehub body for a second time on a handful of occasions, and nearly all those were anticipated beforehand. A few times I have had a rough freehub body that I want to have *perfect* again; I've run this body for a while, so that I can see exactly where the balls are running, then I've reground and polished the bearing surfaces where necessary so that they are almost blemish-free, and reassembled with new ball bearings and adjusted to zero play. Better than new....

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User avatar
Gattonero
Posts: 3730
Joined: 31 Jan 2016, 1:35pm
Location: London

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Gattonero »

Brucey wrote:
Gattonero wrote: .... but even when I was working as a Courier my thoughts were "spending 2-3hrs trying to fix somethign that would still be old, or make 3hrs overtime to make more money and get a new one?"
Besides, the old parts work as spare when in need and no other alternative is on sight.


As I mentioned previously several times, after they have been serviced properly they are 'better than new' in that

-if they are new and unworn they have zero free play in after they have been serviced correctly and
- if they are used then they are (unlike nearly all new ones) still play-free even if the freewheel bearings are not perfectly smooth any more.
- if there is any free play the wear rate is vastly higher than if there is no free play in the bearings.
...


As far as I could understand, the boy had worn out the main hub bearings, so how could the used freehub be "better than new" after a normal service is hard to believe.
I've seen too many of those freehubs being badly damaged and rumbly due to contamination, the bearing races get rusty and pitted which is twice as bad given the small ball bearings that will have to run onto.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Brucey »

Gattonero wrote:...As far as I could understand, the boy had worn out the main hub bearings, so how could the used freehub be "better than new" after a normal service is hard to believe.

OP's hubs have cartridge bearings. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the freehub body had free play in it from day one. I'd rather have a correctly adjusted freehub with no free play even if it has imperfect bearing quality.

...I've seen too many of those freehubs being badly damaged and rumbly due to contamination, the bearing races get rusty and pitted which is twice as bad given the small ball bearings that will have to run onto.


The balls cab be changed for new for pennies. It certainly shouldn't take you three hours to do the job! Anyway if the freehub bearings are a bit noisy....

so what....????? .

The bearings only run when you are freewheeling; the rest of the time (when you are pedalling) they just sit there. If the bearings have free play in them, it just allows the freehub to move about which soaks up your effort and wears the bearings yet more....

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User avatar
Gattonero
Posts: 3730
Joined: 31 Jan 2016, 1:35pm
Location: London

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Gattonero »

Brucey wrote:...
The balls cab be changed for new for pennies. It certainly shouldn't take you three hours to do the job! Anyway if the freehub bearings are a bit noisy....

so what....????? ....


"So what?" :shock:
You can change the ball bearings but not the races!
Once they are rusty and pitted even the smallest imperfection will make the freehub rumbly when coasting, due to the small size of the ball bearings.
While this is ok "to keep the boat afloat" I don't consider it enough to justify the waste of time. If a repair is done, has to be done properly so to keep things running smooth during time. Leaving a freehub to be rumbly is not a good job done.

It is for this reason that I said before that in exceptional circumstances I have ground the bearing races before fitting new ball bearings, once the freehub is shimmed accordingly to the small difference, it's far better.

I won't advise to open a freehub just to replace the ball bearings and leave the races rusty and pitted, the only benefit of this could be a visual check of the integrity of the pawls/spring, though it's not a silver bullet against failure.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Brucey »

as an experiment I have used a noisy freehub body for several years and it worked fine. If anything it got quieter by itself as time went on. I have repeated this experience with other bikes and other folk.

It really doesn't matter if the freewheel bearings are a bit noisy; it has nothing to do with whether the freewheel part works or not.

As I said before free play in freehub bearings is a very bad idea indeed; that is exactly what you get with a lot of new freehub bodies; I'd sooner have a noisy one with no free play than a quiet one with some free play in it, even if it was brand new.

BTW there is a fair selection of freehub bodies here

http://www.bikeplus.co.uk/c/641/Freehub-Bodies

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fastpedaller
Posts: 3436
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by fastpedaller »

Thought I'd get some semi-fluid grease from our local tractor parts emporium (the only place I thought would have it) - they could supply it (but only in 12.5kg tins), so it may have to be mail ordered. Whilst there I picked up (just :wink: ) a 500ml tin of zinc-rich primer for my car chassis. This is seriously heavy paint at 1573g for 1/2 litre! Guy said he holds onto the can when he hands it to customers in case they drop it :lol:
Brucey
Posts: 44643
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Brucey »

re semi-fluid grease: If using it to lube freehub bodies, it is certainly more convenient to use an aerosol semi-fluid grease; it comes out with some solvent and will penetrate the workings more quickly.

If you are desperate/keen it is possible to make a semi-fluid grease by mixing a #2 grease with a compatible oil. About 50:50 is a good place to start.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fastpedaller
Posts: 3436
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by fastpedaller »

Thanks for that Brucey - should do the job well and must be available (somewhere) locally! (depths of Norfolk :lol: )
fastpedaller
Posts: 3436
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by fastpedaller »

Update.. Before I went on the hunt for a semi-fluid grease spray I remembered I had in the garage some
AZPRO Professional Chain Lube I'd bought last year at a car show for £2. On examining the remnants around the rim of the aerosol that catches any drips, I found it was a clear fluid, and a little more viscous than oil. A squirt onto a handy piece of steel, and left for 1/2 hour also confirmed. I think this is also a "00" semi-fluid grease.

http://azpro.co.uk/index.php/online-sto ... ube-detail

So instead of hunting the shops I hunted my garage and unearthed the freehub I wanted to treat. A well-used, but still very good Shimano FH-M290 7 speed hub (Acera X) . On removing the cones, it reminded me how good the bearing surfaces are, even on these budget hubs. Although this hub has seen a lot of grit (and the beach several times) over a years, the sealing must be very good on it, as there was really no ingress - I had dismantled this hub before use and put RG2 waterproof grease in it several years ago. I agree it hasn't seen much rain though!
I didn't attempt to remove the freehub (is that the word?) off the hub itself because there is no rim attached. Anyway, cones and balls removed and a very good squirt of the grease to (hopefully) lubricate the pawls/bearings inside. I didn't see any residue from the inner side near the hub flange, although it felt as if at least some had got inside. All now assembled and ready for a rim at some time. :D
User avatar
Erudin
Posts: 646
Joined: 17 Sep 2009, 3:39am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Erudin »

Reviving this old thread as my current wheels on my road bike are Racing Sports used since 2019. The freehub pawls started sticking slightly so bought a new one from Inspiral Cycles, it's slightly different than the original and requires one less spacer and seems better sealed. Will attempt to disassemble the old one to see if it can be repaired. Needed to knock out the non-driveside bearing and use a 12mm hex key to remove the old freehub. Full instructions were on the Fulcrum website which was helpful. I've been impressed with this £90 wheelset as they've handled a lot of rough roads and stayed true. Hopefully the new freehub will last well.
Attachments
2022-12-15 15.44.56.jpg
2022-12-15 16.11.18.jpg
User avatar
Erudin
Posts: 646
Joined: 17 Sep 2009, 3:39am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Erudin »

Disassembled the old freehub, quite a lot of rust. The grease seemed a bit thick where the two pawls were, spring seems ok. Cleaned it up and reassembled with fresh grease and it feels smooth, have ordered some new 1/8th inch bearings to put in it.
Attachments
2023-01-21 12.47.23.jpg
2023-01-21 13.01.51-1.jpg
2023-01-21 12.54.27.jpg
2023-01-21 12.39.40.jpg
2023-01-21 12.33.24.jpg
User avatar
Erudin
Posts: 646
Joined: 17 Sep 2009, 3:39am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Fulcrum Racing Sport Freehub

Post by Erudin »

Using Fulcrum Racing 900 wheels (Planet X have them on sale at £75) for the rest of winter as the freehub is easier to get at for inspection/clean and regrease. They are a better design for servicing than the Racing Sport's. Update: Bought a second pair for £59.99 with an extra 20% discount code.
Attachments
IMG20230129165241.jpg
IMG20230129165401.jpg
IMG20230129165434.jpg
Fulcrum Raing 900 Parts Diagram.jpg
Post Reply