Wow, big failure there, look at the pawl pocket at 11 o'clock how flared has gone. And looking at the seal and other parts, it doesn't look very old either.
Unusual, IME
Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Yes, it may be unusual, but it's put me off these hubs.
Delicate, IMHO, but they strip and reassemble so very easily, they are a dream to work on.
The original split .........................
I came up the steep hill on my way home. I mean steep. 25% and I was in bottom gear 28f 30r. Chorus triple chainset with a 28t instead of the 30t standard inner. Centaur 12-30 10sp cassette.
Half way up, I heard a crack. No symptoms. No issues. No problem.
It was a week or two tater that I took the cassette off to clean it ....... as is my habit ............. except I couldn't.
I undid the lockring ok, but although I could get the first couple of cogs off, the rest seemed to be jammed, so I had to resort to brute force, and then I saw the split. This was March 2013 and the hub had done circa 15,000miles.
I found that I could buy a new body, but I was confused about the different part numbers, and after research found out that the older one like wot I had was superceded by the all-alu version, but the axle was different. Campy Only website - now defunct - was brilliant in this regard. I bought a new Record hub and transferred all the internals plus the axle and freewheel body.
All was well and happy. I'd seen the the steel pawls were spreading the alu housing, and I had to file off the bulges that were catching on the ratchet ring. I did this a few times. I felt that it was a backward step making the pawl carrier out of alu instead of the hard steel.
One day, I was riding and the freewheel sounded "wrong". I stripped it down and found a piece had broken off.
10,500miles done. May 2016.
That was the end of the hub as far as I was concerned.
Delicate, IMHO, but they strip and reassemble so very easily, they are a dream to work on.
The original split .........................
I came up the steep hill on my way home. I mean steep. 25% and I was in bottom gear 28f 30r. Chorus triple chainset with a 28t instead of the 30t standard inner. Centaur 12-30 10sp cassette.
Half way up, I heard a crack. No symptoms. No issues. No problem.
It was a week or two tater that I took the cassette off to clean it ....... as is my habit ............. except I couldn't.
I undid the lockring ok, but although I could get the first couple of cogs off, the rest seemed to be jammed, so I had to resort to brute force, and then I saw the split. This was March 2013 and the hub had done circa 15,000miles.
I found that I could buy a new body, but I was confused about the different part numbers, and after research found out that the older one like wot I had was superceded by the all-alu version, but the axle was different. Campy Only website - now defunct - was brilliant in this regard. I bought a new Record hub and transferred all the internals plus the axle and freewheel body.
All was well and happy. I'd seen the the steel pawls were spreading the alu housing, and I had to file off the bulges that were catching on the ratchet ring. I did this a few times. I felt that it was a backward step making the pawl carrier out of alu instead of the hard steel.
One day, I was riding and the freewheel sounded "wrong". I stripped it down and found a piece had broken off.
10,500miles done. May 2016.
That was the end of the hub as far as I was concerned.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Should I be using Mobilith grease within the hubs ?
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Graham wrote:Should I be using Mobilith grease within the hubs ?
Depends where.
On the ratchet ring and pawls you want to use a very light texture grease, to not clog them up: the pawl spring in those original ones was calibrated to reduce the drag, so doesn't pull the pawls up with lots of force. A medium or thick grease can foul the pawls to open up
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Mick F wrote:Yes, it may be unusual, but it's put me off these hubs.
Delicate, IMHO,...
Sounds like you've had some rotten luck there.
I too am using Miche hubs now, but for the only reason that you can open them with only two allen keys. Though I've never broken a spoke in my life, I know the Murphy's law so it's good to have a hub that allows you to remove the cassette "in the field" with small, readily available tools.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Gattonero wrote:Mick F wrote:Yes, it may be unusual, but it's put me off these hubs.
Delicate, IMHO,...
Sounds like you've had some rotten luck there.
I too am using Miche hubs now, but for the only reason that you can open them with only two allen keys. Though I've never broken a spoke in my life, I know the Murphy's law so it's good to have a hub that allows you to remove the cassette "in the field" with small, readily available tools.
Yes.
Spot on.
Great design.
I have a wheelset as spares now, with Campag Mirage 2004 hubs. The rear one is very noisy due to the individual little pawl springs and coarse ratchet ring, but they appear bomb-proof. They too can come apart with a couple of Allen keys, but stripping the rear one is fraught with problems .......................
You need a mallet or somesuch to drive out the whole axle to the right to get the cassette carrier off .............. and then you lose the pesky pawls and springs!
The Miche variety, though similar in many respects, you don't need to remove the rear axle as the carrier slides off easily AND you have a circular spring to hold in the pawls. Much much better than the Campag Mirage.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
If you need a mallet to remove the freehub from the axle, you can try with new bearings. If the problem persists, then you may have a bent axle, it won't be the first one I've seen.
Btw, that Campagnolo design, 1st gen. cassette hub ("hourglass shape") does have its problem too, name it the tiny 2mm grub screw that locks the Rh nut in place: usually is fine (that is a "wet" area due to the chain oil) but if gets seized it's not easy to remove, as it's a tight space to drill and use a reverse extractor
Btw, that Campagnolo design, 1st gen. cassette hub ("hourglass shape") does have its problem too, name it the tiny 2mm grub screw that locks the Rh nut in place: usually is fine (that is a "wet" area due to the chain oil) but if gets seized it's not easy to remove, as it's a tight space to drill and use a reverse extractor
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Sorry, you've not got my point.
The LH end of the 2004 Mirage rear hub comes off easily enough. From what I remember, there's a spacer or two that come off as well.
The main axle goes right through left to right, and the RH end cannot unscrew off.
The main axle, has to pass through both bearings before it is released from the hub.
The freewheel body comes with it.
The LH end of the 2004 Mirage rear hub comes off easily enough. From what I remember, there's a spacer or two that come off as well.
The main axle goes right through left to right, and the RH end cannot unscrew off.
The main axle, has to pass through both bearings before it is released from the hub.
The freewheel body comes with it.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Yes that's not a 1st gen., cartridge bearings came after. You need two 17mm spanners to open those hubs (almost always is the Lh nut that comes off, the Rh been factory threadlocked), and the axle ought to slide off relatively easy towards the Rh side.
Good news are that you can use another axle, to have a right fit, from lots of other Campagnolo and Fulcrum hubs, they all have the same OLD and spacing in the Rh nut
Good news are that you can use another axle, to have a right fit, from lots of other Campagnolo and Fulcrum hubs, they all have the same OLD and spacing in the Rh nut
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Ok, I remember now.
Yes, thin spanners IIRC.
No, they don't slide out relatively easily, and never have.
I tried putting the axle back-to-front and in from the LH side to make the freewheel body easier to take out and back on and re-fitting the spacers, but the system doesn't work like that sadly.
If it worked like the Miche, it would be better ........... and the pawl springs too.
Yes, thin spanners IIRC.
No, they don't slide out relatively easily, and never have.
I tried putting the axle back-to-front and in from the LH side to make the freewheel body easier to take out and back on and re-fitting the spacers, but the system doesn't work like that sadly.
If it worked like the Miche, it would be better ........... and the pawl springs too.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Those are 12mm OD axles, no surprise both hubs do use #6001 bearings in the main hub and #6901 in the freehub.
Surely the Campagnolo hub is a bit more fiddly to deal with, especially in the field. The Miche hub also has the advantage of readily available freehubs for Campagnolo and Shimano (including 10-11sp) so a lot more versatile.
Surely the Campagnolo hub is a bit more fiddly to deal with, especially in the field. The Miche hub also has the advantage of readily available freehubs for Campagnolo and Shimano (including 10-11sp) so a lot more versatile.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Graham wrote:Should I be using Mobilith grease within the hubs ?
as a general rule it isn't a bad idea to use a grease (with the same base oil) that has a consistency that is only just thick enough to stay put/not come weeing out of the hub. It will keep the seal lips wetted better and it will get around the wearing parts better too, thus better diluting any contaminants.
It is certainly a bad idea to use a grease that is too thick; as others have pointed out it can foul pawl engagement, and is more likely to run dry in the seal lips and wear them.
In hubs that have efficient lip seals, I tend to use lots of semi-fluid grease. If the seals were perfect, I'd probably use an oil instead.
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Front hub now completed. There was lots of original white grease still in the hub, but the stuff around the ball bearings was contaminated with dirt.
All clean and running nicely now.
When I service the back hub, I was wondering if I could check that the spacers on the Miche 10sp sprocket are in the right order.
There is a possibility that they got mixed up as I was not aware that the order was significant. From a visual inspection they look identical.
The 30t sprocket is quite heavily dished with no spacer ( thus, that gap is correct ).
I had a look in the Campag Spare Parts Catalogue to see if a Campag cassette could give me any clues.
It just gives a load of Part numbers.
All clean and running nicely now.
When I service the back hub, I was wondering if I could check that the spacers on the Miche 10sp sprocket are in the right order.
There is a possibility that they got mixed up as I was not aware that the order was significant. From a visual inspection they look identical.
The 30t sprocket is quite heavily dished with no spacer ( thus, that gap is correct ).
I had a look in the Campag Spare Parts Catalogue to see if a Campag cassette could give me any clues.
It just gives a load of Part numbers.
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
Miche cassettes are built differently to Campag ones, so looking in the campag catalogue is unlikely to be helpful.
If in doubt, check for poor shifting and/or measure the spacers with a Vernier or micrometer.
Some cassettes are built with uneven width spacers/shift intervals even though the sprockets are flat; the idea is that if the shift ramps don't line up between neighbouring sprockets, the shift contains more 'overshift' than normal by virtue of either uneven shift intervals or slightly uneven sprocket spacing.
cheers
If in doubt, check for poor shifting and/or measure the spacers with a Vernier or micrometer.
Some cassettes are built with uneven width spacers/shift intervals even though the sprockets are flat; the idea is that if the shift ramps don't line up between neighbouring sprockets, the shift contains more 'overshift' than normal by virtue of either uneven shift intervals or slightly uneven sprocket spacing.
cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Checking & Lubing Chorus Hubs (2001)
In true slapstick style my "carefully handled" Miche sprocket pyramid ended up as a chaotic scattered heap on the ground. 
Nevertheless, the back hub is cleaned out and regreased. The cassette rebuilt with no distinction between the seemingly identical spacers.
It seems to be running very nicely.
Thanks again to all for your contributions. There was a significant risk that I would have messed it up without your guidance.
Nevertheless, the back hub is cleaned out and regreased. The cassette rebuilt with no distinction between the seemingly identical spacers.
It seems to be running very nicely.
Thanks again to all for your contributions. There was a significant risk that I would have messed it up without your guidance.