10 Speed triple v 11 speed double

[densmall]

Given the duplication of many gears with a 10 speed triple will I get almost the same spread of gears with an 11 speed double.

[reohn2]

Until we know the casstte ratios and chainrings for both drivetrains we can't consider the question?

[mattsccm]

Calculate the top and bottom with both set ups. Range is there in front of you. print the little charts out and match the numbers.

[Brucey]

Until we know the casstte ratios and chainrings for both drivetrains we can't consider the question?

yup. It rather depends on which 10s triple and which 11s double....?

cheers

[The utility cyclist]

Given the duplication of many gears with a 10 speed triple will I get almost the same spread of gears with an 11 speed double.

in simple terms you won''t be able to achieve the same spread as readily on a road set up with the 11 speed.

I run both, for range of gears and not having the big jumps to achieve the low gearing the 10x3 gets my vote. To replicate my low gear on the 10x3 (24-28) i'd have to run a 40T sprocket with a 34T ring. Not only does that mean no std Shimano road derailleur will work but you have to buy an expensive cassette that has big jumps in the ratios.
Even when not racing this is a bind, having to increase your cadence by 15, even 20% in some cases when transitioning to one of those big sprockets when hitting a steep ramp is very much awkward at best, you can find there's not a gear in between that suits your ideal cadence.
yes you'll have some overlap but then again that's irrelevant as you'll still have more ratios closer together and a far better chainline.

[geomannie]

the 10x3 gets my vote

+1

I tried running a compact double, in theory giving me a similar gear range as a triple but the big jumps when shifting between the front chain rings did my head in. At my usual riding speed I was constantly swapping between the two front rings and immediately needing to do a double shift on the back. A very unrelaxed riding style.

[Valbrona]

At my usual riding speed I was constantly swapping between the two front rings and immediately needing to do a double shift on the back. A very unrelaxed riding style.

Bullseye! The nail on the head. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[busb]

As has been stated - it partly depends on the ratios. My hybrid has 10/3 (48/36/28 - IIRC with 28-11) whereas my endurance has 11/2 (50/34 with 28-11).
99% is spend on the middle & large rings during commuting where the jumps on the rear are a tiny bit too coarse on the triple but the difference on the double is a tiny bit too coarse on the front so need to spin at a high cadence before changing up where I use the large chainring probably 70% of the time. One extreme gives great overall range at the expense of close ratios so rather depends on how hilly your riding is going to be.
Another aspect worth remembering is the more chainrings - the more potential for mis-shifts & jammed chains hence some mountain bikes going for single chainrings. I'd go for a double for reliability over the added range of a triple. My 1st decent road bike had a single but replaceable chainring as it happens with 5 on the rear.

[Mick F]

For many years, I had a double 52/36 and various sprocket sizes - it was a freewheel back then - and I had a max set of 13-28.
That did me absolutely fine, and then I modernised to a cassette hub and fitted a triple - 52/42/30 with 12-25 cassette.
Not a huge difference in absolute range but quite a bit more of a fiddle. The double was far easier and simple to operate.

Since getting older, I've gone to 53/42/28 and 12-30, so although the fiddle is there, I couldn't get that range any other way.

[Brucey]

As has been stated - it partly depends on the ratios. My hybrid has 10/3 (48/36/28 - IIRC with 28-11) whereas my endurance has 11/2 (50/34 with 28-11).
99% is spend on the middle & large rings during commuting where the jumps on the rear are a tiny bit too coarse on the triple but the difference on the double is a tiny bit too coarse on the front so need to spin at a high cadence before changing up where I use the large chainring probably 70% of the time....

I was confused by this since the only difference between the cassettes is that a 10s one goes 21-24-28 and an 11s one goes 21-23-25-28. So just for fun I put the gear ratios into a gear calculator

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25,28&UF=2185&TF=90&SL=2.2&UN=KMH&GR2=DERS&KB2=28,36,48&RZ2=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF2=2185

if you are running 35mm tyres on both machines then the striking thing is that the gear gaps are arguably as large or larger with the 2x11 setup as with the 3x10 setup. However there is no ~65" gear on the big ring; I'd miss that.

Simply changing the 48 for a 46 might give more acceptable gear ratios on the big ring; in fact (for tapping along purposes i.e. below ~80") they are little different from those on the 2x11 setup;

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25,28&UF=2185&TF=90&SL=2.2&UN=KMH&GR2=DERS&KB2=28,36,46&RZ2=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&UF2=2185

the 3x10 setup give you a much less ferocious double-shift to contend with, too. If you want lots of gears close together and you don't need the biggest gears for commuting there is also something to be said for using a 12-25 cassette with the 3x10 setup

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23,25,28&UF=2185&TF=90&SL=2.2&UN=KMH&GR2=DERS&KB2=28,36,46&RZ2=12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25&UF2=2185

cheers

[roubaixtuesday]

I've gone to 53/42/28 and 12-30, so although the fiddle is there, I couldn't get that range any other way.

I have an 11 speed on 50/34 and 11-36 which gives a very similar range. Makes it suitable for light touring in pretty much any terrain.

I've also got a 10 speed on 50/34 and 11-28, which is pretty much a perfect day ride bike for me.

I don't really understand those who find they have to change too often on the front with doubles; even an 11-28 has a very wide ratio to cover and 11-32 seems to be fairly standard for 11 speed these days.

For me, a triple comes into its own where you need a really wide set of gears. I won't be converting my tandem to a double, for instance. Modern wide ratio cassettes make doubles relatively more attractive than they used to be for many applications.

All just my opinion.

[Tigerbiten]

It's not only the extremes of the range, it's also where you change ranges.
My bent trike was originally setup with a 28t chainring on the HSD and 15t sprocket on the Rohloff.
The first gear was low enough but the shift into overdrive was around 14 mph, which was to slow.
I could get the overdrive shift to 20 mph by using a 11t sprocket but I lost my 9.5" first gear.
I got around the problem by going 54/38 double chainrings and a 21t sprocket.
That way I keep the 9.5" first while having the shift into overdrive at 20 mph.


In the same way with a triple, it's easier to get the shift into the big ring just over your cruising speed (~20 mph) and the drop into the small ring at a reasonable hill climbing speed (<10 mph). Thats gears 8-17 on my Rohloff, 1-7 are my hill climbing gears and 18-24 are my overdrive gears .....
All the double I've seen looks like the shift between ring happens around what I reckon to be cruising speed (~14-16 mph). Thats like my original setup and you may well have to double shift all the time in rolling countryside.

So 2x may be simpler to setup but slight harder than 3x to fine tune to match your riding style.

[meic]

I don't really understand those who find they have to change too often on the front with doubles; even an 11-28 has a very wide ratio to cover and 11-32 seems to be fairly standard for 11 speed these days.

I didnt use to have to change between the rings that often, I spent almost all my time on the inner ring. The large ring was for downhill and fast wind assisted hard drives.
However that same 36 tooth inner ring (the smallest you can fit on a 118bcd) wasnt quite low enough even with a 34 tooth rear. The big proof being that when I replaced it with a triple then did the local Grimpeur it was both much easier and a bit faster.

If it wasnt as hilly I would still be happy with 36/52 and not using the 52 that much because I wouldnt have the down hills. A 36 front going to a 34(or even 32)-11 rear covers an awful lot of possibilities, even with just an 8 speed.
The change to the 52 was not that frequent an event.

[gloomyandy]

Interesting discussion. Here's my slightly different take on it....

I have a triple based bike with MTB style gears but I hardly ever ride it these days. I also have a "summer bike" with a 50/34 and 10 speed 11-28 which is nice to ride, but my favourite bike to ride is my winter/touring bike that has a 42/26 and 10 speed 11-36 when not touring I pretty much only use the 42 chain ring in effect making it a 1x10 and I just love how simple it is. The range is pretty good 31-103". The lowest gear (with the 42 chain ring) is around about the same as that on my summer bike and happily gets me up almost anything in the W. Yorks Pennines (for the really ridiculous climbs I have that 26 inner ring!). The top gear is a little lower, but I just either spin faster or freewheel! I'm sure some will be crying out about chain line and cross chaining but with a Sram setup I can use all 10 rear sprockets with no trimming and do not seem to suffer any greater chain wear then on my other bikes (and I do track what I use). Some folks may find the jumps too big, but I can honestly say it doesn't bother me, but I'm happy to use a pretty wide cadence and probably don't change gears as often as some.

[The utility cyclist]

42-11 is too low a top gear for me personally, even on my commuter bike, I use the 48/12 frequently and it's not even that hilly round here. Whilst I'm in the 36 ring most often I would find it limiting as I cycle down a couple of short hills to the market/GP in the adjacent town in one direction and large supermarket/adjacent town in the opposite direction. I don't particularly want to pedal at 120rpm when 105 will do, I also use that bike for winter rides where I'll hit 40mph, that would mean a cadence of 130+ (I'm not into freewheeling)

I also really wouldn't want to have a 36t sprocket for the reasons I gave previously. For me a triple is the easiest, cheapest and most functional way to achieve a wide range of gears without having to compromise on top end gear ratios or pedalling like a madman whenever you get onto any downward slope of note. If you're into freewheeling as soon as you hit 30mph then the lack of a higher ratio gears isn't going to be a problem.

If I could only have one bike my set up so that I'd have a gear ratio for virtually all scenarios I could imagine me doing unloaded or loaded is 52/36/24 and a 12-30.
There's already talk of 13/14 speed derailleur systems for road bikes.