IGH hubs for Bromptons

[mercalia]

Seems like there is a range off possibilities ranging from the standard that Brompton to those that Kinetics can add to a modified rear triangle -

http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/folding-bikes/brompton/

Rohloff 14 speed
8 & 11 speed Alfine
Sturmey Archer 8 speed ( will fit standard bike )
NuVinci stepless

http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/folding-bikes/brompton/rohloff-brompton-order-form/

What do people here think of the options given that nice as a Rohloff would be, is too expensive?

£1400 might be affordable for me for bus/train/bike touring

[John1054]

Depends on what you want to use your Brompton for. For me the Rohloff has been one of my better purchases. The spread of gears enables cruising at any speed and in any terrain. 1 in 6 hills are easily crawled up, no messy front changer coupled with the absolute best service from Ben Cooper you could imagine. The balance has to be cost against potential use - not an easy decision. I haven't yet seen any of Ben's Rohloffs for sale second hand - mine was his 150+ conversion over two years ago. I don't know when he did his first?

[Brucey]

I recently helped to convert a 6s Brompton to become a 10s Brompton. This used a Sturmey Archer X-RF5(W) hub fitted with a BWR driver and the usual Brompton rear mech.

We kept the 52T chainwheel and fitted 13,15T sprockets to give a (mostly) half-step gearing of ~36" to 107"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,15&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

but there are lots of other possibilities including a 52/ 13T,19T sprocket set to give a 1-1/2 step gearing 28" to 107"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,19&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

or 52/15,22T giving 24" to 92"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,22&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

or even a 52/15,29T (2-1/2 step) system giving 19" to 92" gearing

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=15,29&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

On the minus side the gear intervals are not perfect, (nor is the 5s thumbshifter...) and the setups with larger sprockets probably won't work with the Brompton mech. On the plus side the conversion is not very expensive (by comparison with many) and will fit into a standard frame giving a visual appearance that is virtually unchanged from the standard machine.

FWIW bike touring by train is not like bike commuting by train (for which purpose the Brompton is really designed); there are other options for bikes that arguably ride better but take longer to fold etc that can work better for bike touring.

cheers

[mercalia]

I recently helped to convert a 6s Brompton to become a 10s Brompton. This used a Sturmey Archer X-RF5(W) hub fitted with a BWR driver and the usual Brompton rear mech.

We kept the 52T chainwheel and fitted 13,15T sprockets to give a (mostly) half-step gearing of ~36" to 107"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,15&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

but there are lots of other possibilities including a 52/ 13T,19T sprocket set to give a 1-1/2 step gearing 28" to 107"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,19&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

or 52/15,22T giving 24" to 92"

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=13,22&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

or even a 52/15,29T (2-1/2 step) system giving 19" to 92" gearing

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=SAX5&KB=52&RZ=15,29&UF=1330&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

On the minus side the gear intervals are not perfect, (nor is the 5s thumbshifter...) and the setups with larger sprockets probably won't work with the Brompton mech. On the plus side the conversion is not very expensive (by comparison with many) and will fit into a standard frame giving a visual appearance that is virtually unchanged from the standard machine.

FWIW bike touring by train is not like bike commuting by train (for which purpose the Brompton is really designed); there are other options for bikes that arguably ride better but take longer to fold etc that can work better for bike touring.

cheers

such as?

[Brucey]

such as.... Dahons with larger wheels, various offerings (old and new) from Montague, any bike that you can 'Rinko' and/or put in a bin liner (at which point it mysteriously ceases to be 'a bicycle' and becomes 'outsize luggage'.... ) any bike with S&S couplers, Ritchey breakaway system, Moulton separable, and so on. Thus there are plenty of other bikes with larger wheels that ride 'more normally' and will still go on a train; they might be a pain to use thusly twice a day but that isn't usually the case when touring.

There are exceptions but typically when touring the train is used once every few days and if it take a few minutes to stow the bike then it is no big deal. Regardless of the bike used, carrying multiple bags, panniers etc separately from the bike is a pain; best to pack light.

cheers

[geocycle]

I'm a huge rohloff fan for touring bikes but I am not sure I'd recommend one for a brompton. Do you need the gear range of a rohloff for a commuter? Is the weight too much for a folder that has to be lugged on and off trains? I'd think about where you are using it and then decide -if you are somewhere flat like London you might not need more than 3 gears.

[UpWrong]

I bought the Kinetics SA-8 kit and fitted it myself to my titanium rear triangled Brommie. Getting the spacers right for the derailleur was critical otherwise it interfered with the rotary gear change mech. But I got it working fine although others have reported having a 'mare. I thought the hub was excellent. Good range, could change up slickly whilst pedalling. Gear 4 was very loud initially but it did quieten down with use. The extra weight did kind of kill the luggability of the bike though. In the end I decided I just didn't like the bike. It doesn't have enough trail and the small wheels are a drag. Bought myself a cheap second hand Tern and it's a much better ride.

[mercalia]

this topic should be read in tandem with the one on urban touring which is the purpose I am considering getting a new bike for to facilate putting on and off trains and buses, as I have a freedom pass and like the idea of letting some one else drive most of the distance by bus or train then poodle around for no more than 20 miles or so at the destination ( better and faster than walking ) I did this a week ago when I visited Brighton went up both ways along the promenade to the Marina eastwards and Portslade westwards - I was surprised & puzzled how many cyclists there were as the slim piece of land is an industrial area; right at the end there is a cafe which seems to be a meeting point for cyclists. Any way thats how I get my thrills, seeing some thing on a map and wanting to go and have a look. So comparison with a commuter maynot be out of place

click to enlarge

Portslade

[Tigerbiten]

If I remember correctly, NCR2 runs along there.
And as you cross the lock gates on a shared path, it's virtually traffic free.

[pete75]

such as.... Dahons with larger wheels, various offerings (old and new) from Montague, any bike that you can 'Rinko' and/or put in a bin liner (at which point it mysteriously ceases to be 'a bicycle' and becomes 'outsize luggage'.... ) any bike with S&S couplers, Ritchey breakaway system, Moulton separable, and so on. Thus there are plenty of other bikes with larger wheels that ride 'more normally' and will still go on a train; they might be a pain to use thusly twice a day but that isn't usually the case when touring.

There are exceptions but typically when touring the train is used once every few days and if it take a few minutes to stow the bike then it is no big deal. Regardless of the bike used, carrying multiple bags, panniers etc separately from the bike is a pain; best to pack light.

cheers

This for instance

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dahon-Cadenz ... Swy0JZ51F6

[Brucey]

..... So comparison with a commuter may not be out of place.....

I see what you mean. Train and bus operators vary in their standards of what 'a folding bicycle' is, and you may be travelling out of peak hours and/or be in a hurry which changes things too. Anyway there is a choice to be made between speed/compactness of fold vs abilities/characteristics as a bike, vs cost/ease of maintenance vs any future plans you might have for this machine.

I have a Rudge (Montague) BiFrame for such jaunts, but it officially doesn't fold small enough to count as 'a folding bike' with many rail companies, which may require that it is stuck inside a bin liner or other 'cover'. It is also slower/clumsier to fold than a Brompton, and for that reason alone I wouldn't use it for commuting every day. It (like some others eg some Dahons) does however use 26" (559) wheels which means that I already have 'lots of spare parts'... It also cost me peanuts to buy and uses only one 'special part' which is the frame; the rest of the bike is common or garden late 80's MTB, more or less, with a 1" quill stem. Mine is fitted with 3x8 gearing (mostly Deore) and dropped bars. It rides OK (and swiftly) on 26x1.25 slick tyres (actual rolling diameter is small, close to 24.5" BTW), but I may yet change those for 1.5" tyres which are more comfy.

cheers

[mjr]

If I remember correctly, NCR2 runs along there.
And as you cross the lock gates on a shared path, it's virtually traffic free.

It does, you do and it is, but the few HGVs that are there have turned the road into a moonscape. I returned along Victoria Road and Portland Road rather than enjoy that again.

[PH]

As always there's some compromises between fold and ride to be made. I've been refused access to a bus with a 20" wheeled Dahon, though got on the next bus 10 min later no problem. So Bromptons probably win there, though I prefer the ride of even my cheap 20" wheeled Dahon and the 24" wheeled Airnimal rode better still but wasn't a fast fold. But the thing that would put me off using a Brompton for the sort of touring discussed in the other thread is their nickability, It wouldn't be the bike I'd be happy leaving somewhere while I went exploring.
Back to the gearing, I'm a Rohloff fan, but wouldn't use it for this. Urban areas don't tend to be on mountainsides and I just don't think you'd need the range, plus I doubt I'd be carrying much luggage on a bike I was going to leave parked up. The sort of distances we're talking about mean you're not going to spend long in cruising speeds, so it wouldn't need to be geared particularly high. I've used quite a few city bike hire schemes, the bikes vary but they're all heavy with not much of a gear range, I haven't ever thought it wasn't enough.
As an idea before you splurge a big chunk of cash, why not explore some of the places that have Brompton hire?
https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/

[mercalia]

As always there's some compromises between fold and ride to be made. I've been refused access to a bus with a 20" wheeled Dahon, though got on the next bus 10 min later no problem. So Bromptons probably win there, though I prefer the ride of even my cheap 20" wheeled Dahon and the 24" wheeled Airnimal rode better still but wasn't a fast fold. But the thing that would put me off using a Brompton for the sort of touring discussed in the other thread is their nickability, It wouldn't be the bike I'd be happy leaving somewhere while I went exploring.
Back to the gearing, I'm a Rohloff fan, but wouldn't use it for this. Urban areas don't tend to be on mountainsides and I just don't think you'd need the range, plus I doubt I'd be carrying much luggage on a bike I was going to leave parked up. The sort of distances we're talking about mean you're not going to spend long in cruising speeds, so it wouldn't need to be geared particularly high. I've used quite a few city bike hire schemes, the bikes vary but they're all heavy with not much of a gear range, I haven't ever thought it wasn't enough.
As an idea before you splurge a big chunk of cash, why not explore some of the places that have Brompton hire?
https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/

I am considering the hire thing. I see there is a depot in Croydon not far away. Your assumption of leaving the Brompton to explore not valid in my case, as I am a scene type person rather than building type, the bike would go with me. As for gears, well you must be ageing well as at the moment I need all the gears I have on my 26" 1-Down - 46/36/26 onto 11to30, must be getting quite weak I think.

[mjr]

As always there's some compromises between fold and ride to be made. I've been refused access to a bus with a 20" wheeled Dahon, though got on the next bus 10 min later no problem.

You shouldn't be refused access to a bus with a 20" wheeled Dahon unless the bike is filthy (and unbagged) or the bus is full. At least that's my understanding of the position of CPT and it's reflected in the policies of large operators here like Stagecoach and First as well as the bigger independents: http://www.klwnbug.co.uk/space4cycling/bikes-on-buses/

As an idea before you splurge a big chunk of cash, why not explore some of the places that have Brompton hire?
https://www.bromptonbikehire.com/

I suggested it to someone who'd not tried a Brompton before. I think she's tried three times so far (the hire dock is in a nearby city, not local to her) and still not managed to find a bike they could hire. Meanwhile, BBH have £15 of her money.