Ti Audax frame recommendations...

[Samuel D]

On the slight chance you haven’t read it yet, here’s Dan Joyce’s review of the titanium Spa Audax (PDF).

You might also read Chris Juden’s review of the titanium Spa Touring (PDF), which although about the wrong bicycle has some interesting commentary on titanium as a frame material, the brushed finish, and Spa Cycles.

And while you’re at it, Chris Juden’s review of the steel Spa Audax (also PDF), which has identical geometry.

I ride the steel Spa Audax and find it excellent for fast riding. The head tube could be longer for me (for aesthetic reasons rather than functional), and my example has poorly centred bottle cage mounts (off to the right), but it rides very nicely and all the threads and faces were perfectly cut. I felt I got an outrageous bargain when I bought it, but the list price has since gone up (£305 to £365). It’s notable that Spa hasn’t put up the price of the titanium Audax despite sterling’s devaluation. I’d guess that means they haven’t ordered another batch at the new, presumably higher price and/or they’re going to discontinue it. In other words, if I had half an interest in a titanium frame, I’d get the Spa Audax while the getting is good. Expensive titanium frames will always be available, but what’s the chance of finding a £750 frame (without fork) in a couple of years? Consider too that rim brakes are going out of fashion, even at Spa Cycles.

[amediasatex]

Thanks Samuel, I've already read them all numerous times but good to put the links in one place in case anyone else is pondering the same!

The Spa steel audax has been on my watch list for while too, and I did ponder the idea of buying one to see how I got on with the geo before taking the plunge on the Ti version as apart from subtle material differences they should ride very similarly and I could easily find a use for a steel one too as I, rather gratuitously, tend to run two very similar/almost identical bikes for audax use so that I always have a spare in case of unexpected mechanical at short notice as well as being able to keep one on the road while the other gets fettled.

So far I've not heard a bad word about the Spa in either material variant, the only area they seem to be lacking compared to the alternatives is in aesthetics/finish, and that's almost a pro rather than a con for a bike that's going to see some miles.

[gloomyandy]

It's a disc frame, but it might be worth a look...
https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/sonder-camino-ti

[meic]

So far I've not heard a bad word about the Spa in either material variant, the only area they seem to be lacking compared to the alternatives is in aesthetics/finish, and that's almost a pro rather than a con for a bike that's going to see some miles.

Yes the fact that their brushed finish is nowhere near as nice and shiny as my Van Nicholas's polished finish, does make up a little for the fact that I paid £200 more for the frame than the Spa frame cost when it was released a month later.

[The utility cyclist]

Mate has a Dolan ADX and it's his bike of choice be it the Sunday morning run or chipping over the Alps, he loves it, has SRAM red with the long cage rear mech fitted and got him up and over 60,000ft of climbing over 6 days and he's 52 and not a small lad.
personally I gave an Airbourne Carpe Diem a go this summer/autumn and though too small for me it was a very nice ride, all the fittings you'd need, space for 40mm tyres with guards too, shame they aren't made anymore as I'd have exactly the same in a bigger size.

[amediasatex]

It's a disc frame, but it might be worth a look...
https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/sonder-camino-ti

Thanks for the suggestion but not really what I'm looking for (and I absolutely do not want discs on this bike, I have them on others).

Thanks for the Dolan notes, do you happen to know what it's like for clearance, one owner has told me 25mm max (with guards) while another has said he squeezed a 28 under, so not sure if it really will take 28 happily or not :-s

[chocjohn9]

+ For a Yukon, but I'm hopelessly in love with mine. The polished finish is wonderful - as are the EXAL LX17 rims that I think are "standard".
I have SKS guards and 28mm Conti 4 season tyres and that 's the max.

[pwa]

However, my y Spa Ti Audax happily takes 28mm tyres - Gatorskins, Rubino Pro's, Pasela TG etc

28mm with guards? Mine would have nearly no clearance with that. Maybe they have tweaked the spec since I got mine. Nice frame though. Crisp and neat.

[De Sisti]

but what’s the chance of finding a £750 frame (without fork) in a couple of years?

Possible, if you try xacd.com. They also do titanium forks, which are comfortable (in my opinion).

[amediasatex]

28mm with guards? Mine would have nearly no clearance

The site does specifically say they will fit, and if they're using a 57mm drop brake with the pads at the bottom there should be plenty of room for them. My Mercian is configured as such and can clear 30/32mm without issue (with guards).

Possible, if you try xacd.com.

I did think about going direct but decided against it as I really want to buy from a person/shop in the UK who I can actually speak to if I have issues and would rather my money went to a UK business if at all possible, even if they're still sourcing from elsewhere.

FWIW Justin @Burls has been very helpful over email so far, I am very very tempted as custom for the price he offers is very good indeed, I just can't help but think I can probably get 'close enough' from the Spa for ~500 quid less which is hard to argue with :-s

[Samuel D]

What exactly are you looking for in terms of geometry?

[jamesbradbury]

I've been riding my custom Burls Ti frame for over four years now and very pleased with it. When I bought it it was a very similar in price to non custom frames, so I thought why not.

I've heard from another owner that Justin Burls was very reasonable about a proper fix for a frame crack issue after 3 years.

That said I can see the attraction of the Spa...

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Nexus 5X using hovercraft full of eels.

[pwa]

28mm with guards? Mine would have nearly no clearance

The site does specifically say they will fit, and if they're using a 57mm drop brake with the pads at the bottom there should be plenty of room for them. My Mercian is configured as such and can clear 30/32mm without issue (with guards).

Possible, if you try xacd.com.

I did think about going direct but decided against it as I really want to buy from a person/shop in the UK who I can actually speak to if I have issues and would rather my money went to a UK business if at all possible, even if they're still sourcing from elsewhere.

FWIW Justin @Burls has been very helpful over email so far, I am very very tempted as custom for the price he offers is very good indeed, I just can't help but think I can probably get 'close enough' from the Spa for ~500 quid less which is hard to argue with :-s

My Spa Ti Audax doesn't max out the brake block potential to move down on 57mm calipers, so 25 mm tyres are the limit. This may be a one-off mistake with my frame, or they may have changed the spec since. Worth clarifying if you order from Spa.

[amediasatex]

This may be a one-off mistake with my frame, or they may have changed the spec since. Worth clarifying if you order from Spa.

I will do so, but all the pics I've seen do seem to show the pads right at the bottom of the slots, perhaps as you say a change on later batches.

What exactly are you looking for in terms of geometry?

That might help

Nothing outrageous really, just a few bits that are lacking in some off the peg options. The spec I sent to Justin was:

- standard 1 1/8th headtube for external (EC34) headset is my preference but not a deal breaker if not.
- maximise and use every last mm of a 57mm drop DP brake so I can get 28mm (maybe bigger) tyres AND mudguards
- standard BSA threaded BB
- 27.2 seat tube preferably

~70mm BB drop but a couple of mm either way is no bother, but nothing <65mm
~ 425-430mm chainstays
~ 72-73deg seattube
~ 72deg head angle assuming I'd run 45mm offset forks, I generally prefer a bit more offset for less trail but can't find decent carbon forks with >50mm offset, again a half degree either way would be fine as it's no biggie and I'll adapt.
~ front centre of 595-600mm, should give me plenty of clearance for guards with no overlap, I normally run 165mm cranks but have my cleats quite a way back so 'virtual big feet'
~ Wheelbase comes out at what it comes out at, I'm guessing 1010-1020mm based on front centre and chainstay length

I've normally managed to get acceptable fit on bikes with a 'listed top tube' measurment of ~52-54cm, but that's mostly been on frames with 74+deg seat angles, obviously slackening the ST will lengthen the effective TT measurement. I've also been using fairly long reach bars so TT wise I've got scope to fit something longer which might be a requirement for the front centre dimension I want. I have a Woodrup with a 55.5cm TT that works fine for me, but it has a 72deg seat angle and 15-20mm layback post on it, in reality it's no longer from BB to HT than another bike I have with a 53cm TT and steeper ST that I use with a 30mm layback post.

The problem is often my short legs, my saddle height from BB with my normal saddle is 675mm, which means I tend to fit bikes with shorter seat tubes and longer top tubes.

The slacker ST angle appears to be a sticking point...Spa is one of the only ones that is OK, others are all in the ~74+deg area, which is right at the point where it gets annoying for me as I then have to use a 30mm layback post, of which there are limited options, and I still feel like I want a few mm more.

[pwa]

Might be worth contacting Spa to see if the "maxing out the brakes" is a feature on current stock.