Ti Audax frame recommendations...

[Samuel D]

I wonder if in the real world, most people pay a little less attention the numbers on paper than us picky types do, and just go by test rides and adjustments at the shop

Well, until they suffer discomfort that isn’t resolved by heavily padded gloves, thick handlebar tape, a professional bike fit (whatever that is), and all the other attempts to fix the problem of excessive weight on the hands caused by an overly forward saddle.

I don’t have Keezx’s experience, but I pay attention to what’s going on, and I see many more cyclists with their saddle too far forward than too far back, and many more frames that limit the saddle travel in the rearward direction than in the forward direction. How often do you hear of someone complaining they can’t get their saddle far enough forward with widely available seatposts? It’s a rare problem. On the other hand, I would need an expensive, heavy, hard to find seatpost (Nitto S84) to fit many frames on the market.

[Samuel D]

last time I looked on the Mercian website there was geometry available, but I see they've re-vamped the site since then. They also used to have a custom bike builder app on there where you could load in one of their frames and then meddle with colours, tubing diameters and angles and whatnot, but that seems to have gone.

To be fair to them I can see the logic of not publishing geometry tables when they are basically custom builders, they're the kind of place that want to chat with you about what you want, and since every aspect is up for modification it's a bit tricky to compare! But, I can also see how it's frustrating if you just want to start with a ballpark for comparison...tis often the way with 'traditional' builders though, their online presence isn't always as good as it could be.

There is some information if you scroll down the page for each frame, e.g. this one.

I wasn’t able to find top-tube lengths. Are these traditionally the same as the seat tube? Head-tube lengths aren’t listed either, presumably because the top tube is horizontal.

Bob Jackson’s site is worse (roughly useless), although that caused me to email them a couple of short questions, and I got a very competent and useful reply (to my slight amazement).

Spa Cycles are to be applauded for publishing their detailed geometry in a single, easy-to-read chart. It’s the photos and design explanation that are lacking on Spa’s website.

The new high-end frame makers know the importance of good photos, but they charge three times what I’d prefer to pay.

Good photos are worth their cost. A professional photographer who knows how to light things – not the boss’s nephew who has a nice camera – can be hired for a day for a few hundred quid. The results are worth it.

[amediasatex]

I wasn’t able to find top-tube lengths. Are these traditionally the same as the seat tube?

Not necessarily! Of the 3 Mercians I own none of them have TT=ST*, one is off the peg, 2 are custom, and one of them is about to depart, as that's what the Spa is going to replace

* they also all have different angles too so all look different to each other yet fit the rider (me) fine for their intended purpose, despite being obviously different shapes and sizes!

[tod28]

Well, I think Colin's personal preferences spoiled the thing for me.
Cannot see how a 1.70 m person (and there are slill lots of them who like cycling) ever can fit properly on a 52 cm Spa Audax TI....
Weight distribution will be too far on the rear due to the long reach, a short stem does'nt change that.

That's me 1.7 m standing in my socks and the 52cm fits me very comfortably with a 100 mm stem and saddle level with the bars. Weight distribution is not compromised in any way. I can only suggest you try the geometry out rather than pontificate!

[Keezx]

You must look like a chimpansee....

[fastpedaller]

I appreciate the more 'traditional' custom frame builders may not have an all singing, all dancing website, but (I know I'm boring) is the customer buying a pretty web picture or a bike frame? I prefer the reassurance that the builder can build a nice, custom frame to whatever spec I need (within reason)

[amediasatex]

Well it's arrived, not bad considering I ordered on Monday!

It looks very different to the pictures on the website, and I have to say I'm already impressed, if it rides as good as it looks it'll be great!

I'll sort some pics out later as I'm running a club ride tonight so might not have time, but suffice it to say the finish is typical Ti brushed like most other Ti frames, the graphics are very subtle blasted/etched so very understated. It has two bottle mounts as you'd expect, no pump peg (short headtube), and a proper mudguard mount drilled and tapped vertically under the brake bridge, and drilled and tapped on the chainstay bridge too.

[The utility cyclist]

I wonder if in the real world, most people pay a little less attention the numbers on paper than us picky types do, and just go by test rides and adjustments at the shop

Well, until they suffer discomfort that isn’t resolved by heavily padded gloves, thick handlebar tape, a professional bike fit (whatever that is), and all the other attempts to fix the problem of excessive weight on the hands caused by an overly forward saddle.

I don’t have Keezx’s experience, but I pay attention to what’s going on, and I see many more cyclists with their saddle too far forward than too far back, and many more frames that limit the saddle travel in the rearward direction than in the forward direction. How often do you hear of someone complaining they can’t get their saddle far enough forward with widely available seatposts? It’s a rare problem. On the other hand, I would need an expensive, heavy, hard to find seatpost (Nitto S84) to fit many frames on the market.

I'm 5ft 11 with quite long arms for my height, with a 32" IL I tend to ride quite a lot larger frames than most, for instance I have a 62cm ti racing frame which is traditional horizontal tt, it's 'only' 57cm c-c in the top tube but I still use a 110mm stem but it gives a nice comfortable and reasonably upright position as racing bikes go, similarly my CF bike, 59cmST, 58cm TT and a 110mm stem so it does have me a little more forward/bit lower at the front end but is far from extreme, after a couple of shoulder injuries from rugby and cycling I'm not keen on the overtly aggressive low down position that is common-place in sporting circles.
it's funny though not unexpected that some frames fit some but not others and that no amount of fiddling unless to some extreme of having a really short or long stem (140mm stem isn't uncommon in the pro ranks) as well as a set back seatpost or inline to remedy the sizing

[amediasatex]

hasty phone photos, sorry they're not great, but hopefully you get the idea of finish and shapes etc.








Fit wise, I've double checked all the measurements and also had it up against a few different bikes I've got and its looking like it's going to be great, almost exactly what I'm after which is a relief! Length wise in terms of horizontal reach, BB->headtube, it comes out as the same length as my 53cm Mercian, and is also pretty much bang on identical to my Wife's 53cm Trek but with a more useful seat angle, so really not as long as the chart suggests, certainly it'll be fine with 100-110mm stem and compact ~80mm reach bars. Headtube length is fine too, it's longer than the headtube on the Trek, and the same length as the headtube on my 54cm Woodrup so bar height isn't going to be an issue for me. Very pleased

[Samuel D]

Interesting. That chain stay bridge is massive! The seat stay bridge looks solid too (is it actually bar stock?).

My steel Audax didn’t come with screws in the many bosses. I’d have thought Spa would want you to weigh the titanium version without those screws, so I’m surprised they fitted them.

I wonder if Spa would be able to paint a titanium frame black.

[amediasatex]

That chain stay bridge is massive!

It is a bit! Although having seen a number of frames with crack at the bridge/chainstay weld I'm kind of reassured and I doubt it adds much in weight!

The seat stay bridge looks solid too (is it actually bar stock?).

It's hard to tell form the pics but it appears that the spars of the bridge are actually taper so I don't think it's plain bar stock, it does seem to be a purposefully designed piece, probably one of many available to frame builders I'm sure, but it's nice enough.

One thing I did check is that there's loads of tyre room, diameter wise and width wise, a pair of 40mm wide GB guards (just) fit in the chainstay gap (as evidence by the mark in the pic!), although I'll probably use 35mm guards it's nice to know there's space for bigger if needed.

My steel Audax didn’t come with screws in the many bosses

I was pleasantly surprised that it came with a full compliment of bolts too, I have plenty anyway, but it's still a useful inclusion.

Spa would want you to weigh the titanium version without those screws

I've not had a chance to weigh it yet, but with the seatclamp and bolts fitted my carefully calibrated Mk1 Human Hands reckon it's ~1600g give or take a bit, I'll confirm later.

I wonder if Spa would be able to paint a titanium frame black.

If they can't I'm sure someone else can...if that's your thing.

[Samuel D]

I wonder if Spa would be able to paint a titanium frame black.

If they can't I'm sure someone else can...if that's your thing.

It’s only that my components are mostly silver and they wouldn’t look good on a frame of a slightly different shade of silver. Needs to be a nice solid colour like black, yellow, pink, etc.

Looking forward to seeing your built-up bicycle at some point.

[amediasatex]

my components are mostly silver and they wouldn’t look good on a frame of a slightly different shade of silver

So are mine, mostly...but will see how it turns out, I'm certainly not going to buy a new groupset just for aesthetic reasons, I am a bike tart, but not that much of a tart!

I did however order some new black mudguards as I don't think the silver ones would work with the Ti frame, so maybe I am!

[pwa]

My Spa Ti Audax is the dull grey variety, which I quite like, and came with cheapo stickers that I removed soon after. The brighter finish in the pics is perhaps more appealing, and the etched graphics are good. Otherwise it looks the same.

Mine built up very easily, with the headset and bottom bracket going in snugly but easily, and everything true. But someone else I met, with the same frameset, had been given forks that were misaligned and needed to be replaced. So that might be worth checking before building up.

Black looks good with titanium, but my chainset is silver and, to me, looks fine.

[PH]

Looking good, I've seen the Elan in a similar finish and it looked as neat as any ti frame I've seen.
Do they offer a choice of finish? I like the dull bead blasted one (Not that I'm looking for a new frame) which I also think looks good with silver components.