20mph zones "More dangerous."

[thirdcrank]

I don't think this has been discussed on the forum but it seems fundamentally important to me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... il-admits/

Briefly, it's suggested that the introduction of 20mph zones leads to an increase in serious casualties, with the implication that driving more slowly is somehow dangerous. Apart from what I believe still to be the policy that these limits are not routinely enforced, so it does not follow that 20mph limits = traffic at 20 mph max, it's based on the reality that casualties are reduced when roads are manifestly too dangerous for vulnerable users.

[Heltor Chasca]

I believe the Bath Chronicle was the rag whose invalidated and anecdotal findings somehow managed to get into the Telegraph. The BC is currently taking quite a bit of flack from local activists because of this.

Lazy and irresponsible journalism.

[Cyril Haearn]

No statistics for *KSI*
K is one thing and SI is quite another

[LollyKat]

There is an interesting thread over on YACF about this.

This is one of the posts:

http://www.20splenty.org/banes-report takes the lack of statistical rigour apart very nicely.

[Cunobelin]

A frequently claimed, and equally often disproved claim by opponents of these systems

[PRL]

There is an interesting thread over on YACF about this.

This is one of the posts:

http://www.20splenty.org/banes-report takes the lack of statistical rigour apart very nicely.

Lack of statistical rigour is an understatement. The total injuries went down significantly. By breaking the region up into small sections the report found that the injuries went up in more sections than they went down; mostly by random fluctuation given the very small numbers per section.

[Annoying Twit]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

[profpointy]

Not commented on the article which may well be click bait, or standard cycle hating, or both, or neither...

but on a fairly busy shoppi g road near me where they introduced 20mph a while back it does seem, paradoxically, harder to cross the road now, than it did when the limit was 30. I think the smoother traffic flow of the slower speed means there are fewer gaps, and also you can't quite be sure the traffic is actually doing 20 rather than 30 so you don't gain as much as you'd think by crossing when cars are closer. It's Whiteladies road in Bristol I'm refering to.

That said, I broadly approve of 20mph in many town roads, but even so, it doesn't necessarily solve everything

[Bonefishblues]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

As opposed to the analysis of a pressure group which lobbies for the measure. I sense their dilemma.

[Annoying Twit]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

As opposed to the analysis of a pressure group which lobbies for the measure. I sense their dilemma.

If the total number of injuries and deaths went down, then I don't think there is any need to rely on analysis. The simple figures will speak for themselves.

[Cyril Haearn]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

As opposed to the analysis of a pressure group which lobbies for the measure. I sense their dilemma.

If the total number of injuries and deaths went down, then I don't think there is any need to rely on analysis. The simple figures will speak for themselves.

Lumping K +SI together is no good, KSI = 10 might mean 10 K or 10 SI
Plenty of SI make a full recovery

[squeaker]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

According to 20's Plenty, the original (with devious summary) report was from Bath council, which the local press picked up on, helped by a local politician. AKA more fake news

[Cyril Haearn]

K:SI
Probably there were no K

Maybe the maximum speed limit could be changed to 30 kmh not 30 mph


BTW one should write about *lower speeds* not *slower speeds*

[Bonefishblues]

Isn't there an Independent Press Standards Organisation that a complaint could be sent to if the statistics are dodgy and misleading?

According to 20's Plenty, the original (with devious summary) report was from Bath council, which the local press picked up on, helped by a local politician. AKA more fake news

Your use of both "fake news" and "devious summary" carries an obvious implication that it was deliberate and deceptive. I can think of no reason why they would want it be so - do you have some insight on this?

[LollyKat]

How many councillors are are cyclists and how many are motorists?