Cycling UK Forum

Hi there! Been lurking on the forums for a little while and thought I'd finally join to ask a few questions of my own, as well as contribute best I can with other people's posts and threads

I'm looking to upgrade the Sora gearing on my alloy Synapse - I've definitely been enjoying the bike itself for my daily commutes and longer weekend rides, as well as the odd 2/3 day mini weekend tours but have grown to dislike the Sora shifters.

While the shifting is actually very good for a budget groupset, I find the cables popping out at the side of each shifter uncomfortable and been wanting under bar cabling for a while.

I managed to buy a pair of 105 5800 shifters in great nick from eBay, but the jump to 11 speeds seems most likely to require a lot more upgrades than first thought (ie chainset, derailleurs etc). The Tiagra 4700 seems to get very good reviews, and is considered by many a 10 speed equivalent to 105 these days, and the fact I could keep my chainset as well as -it seems- my derailleurs means I'd only have to change cassette and chain, which would be very easy and cheap to sort out. Shape wise it seems both sets of shifters are basically identical, so don't expect much difference in comfort, and the few grams extra don't worry me much at all.

Curious ot hear what the general consensus on these two options. The 11th gear sounds nice and fancy but in the real world I'm not sure I'd miss it if I was to go Tiagra, so the question is more down to reliability and performance, Would going 11 speed be worth it? Or have I andwered my own questions and should shift my attention to Tiagra? Given it would be easy to sell the 105 shifters I have I'd then only need a 20 quid cassette and new chain (my chain being over a year old and likely due a swap anyway..!).

Any input/wisdom/personal experience much welcome!

I'm not sure why you find the external cables uncomfortable. Explain? If you change the cassette, chain and cables it will likely feel like new - and 9 speed cassette and chains are relatively cheap. I would stick with Sora until the levers and mechs wear out, then upgrade. The new Sora does away with the external cables.

I have Tiagra 4700 levers and mechs and they operate just like 105 did a few years ago (although I have had a slight issue with the Tiagra levers https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=119850). I run Tiagra with 11-34 cassette, I don't need more cogs.

tiagra 4700 uses a different pull ratio to other 10s (road) groupsets. You need 4700 mechs (or 11s road) to run 10s using ST-4700.

Other than the 'spinal tap' effect (this one goes to eleven.... ) I'm not sure that there is much to be gained by having more gears. In theory you can have a wider range of gears or gears that are closer together; in reality you may not use all the gears you have at present and one extra cog may only close up one gap between sprockets in a cassette that is otherwise similar. Big whup.

IME 10s and 11s stuff wears out faster and costs more to replace than 9s stuff, too. Underbar cable routing just makes for more cable maintenance that is more awkward and more expensive. Instead of a couple of inner cables every year or two you may need a full cable set (£££) and new bar tape once or twice a year to keep it all sweet. Note that a (road) 11s cassette won't fit on an 8/9/10s freehub body either.

So my preference would be to fit the 9s kit with new consumables (cables, pulleys, chain and sprockets) and to carry on running it. Easy life.... Maybe it would make sense to upgrade on your synapse if you were running a commuting/training machine that needed a replacement gearset, the sora would be good for that.

BTW if you already have the 11s shifters you may be itching to use them somehow. Shimano 11s (road) shifters pull about 2.7mm cable/click, vs 2.5mm per click for 9s shifters. I think a hubbub-style cable mount on the rear mech might allow you to run 9s RD, 9s cassette, 11s rear shifter together. IIRC the 11s front shifter pulls a load more cable than a 9s one, so you might have to get an 11s front mech (or a tiagra FD-4700) to get the front shifting to work properly.

cheers

Thank you both for sharing your thought, much appreciated!

The problem I have with the external cable is that the cable pops out exactly where my thumbs want to rest. Having had a few spins on bikes with 105 shifters I just loved how much more comfortable I could immediately get on the hoods and been fancying it for my own bike since. They are also in the way whenever using bar bags, which has caused me a couple of issue with cables bending out of place.

Love the spinal tap analogy

I'm not necessarily itching to use the 11s if I was to choose 11s 105 would be more trouble than it's worth, since they could be very easily sold back to raise funds for the Tiagra shifters.

I also did see the new Sora goes under hood with the cabling, but I seem to have read the old derailleur wouldn't be compatible as it uses the same pull ration as 105 - and Tiagra, meaning whatever I do, I'm likely to have to change rear derailleur anyway. Good news is, it's easily done for around 20 or so quid.

Re maintenance, I'd expect to be swapping cables and bar tape once or so a year anyway, so not too worried if that's about the time I can expect to get out of them

Lastly, I upgraded the wheels to Fulcrum 5s which I'm using with a spacer to run the 9 gear, but would take either 10 or 11s without issues.

AFAICT ST-R3000 uses the same rear pull ratio as every other 9s shifter.

cheers

AFAICT ST-R3000 uses the same rear pull ratio as every other 9s shifter.

Confirmed ^

I have recently replaced some tired Sora 3500 (external cable) STIs for a friend with the new R3000 (underbar cable) STI, using his existing rear mech, no issues whatsover.

It's a drop in replacement for you if you do want to stay 9 speed and re-use existing rear mech but go to underbar routing.

amediasatex wrote:

AFAICT ST-R3000 uses the same rear pull ratio as every other 9s shifter.

Confirmed ^

I have recently replaced some tired Sora 3500 (external cable) STIs for a friend with the new R3000 (underbar cable) STI, using his existing rear mech, no issues whatsover.

It's a drop in replacement for you if you do want to stay 9 speed and re-use existing rear mech but go to underbar routing.

Yes, cheapest option is to sell the 11 speed 105 shifters and invest in a set of ST-R3000 shifters. They will work fine with your existing 9 speed mech.

I don't know if amediasatex can say how well they will play with older Sora brake callipers though. Might be worth checking the relevant techdocs.

all Sora 9s uses the current (NSSLR) cable pull.

cheers

Brucey wrote:all Sora 9s uses the current (NSSLR) cable pull.

cheers

Not quite true. True for the paddle sort but 9 speed Sora with the thumb buttons aren't NSSLR.

fatboy wrote:

Brucey wrote:all Sora 9s uses the current (NSSLR) cable pull.

cheers

Not quite true. True for the paddle sort but 9 speed Sora with the thumb buttons aren't NSSLR.

you mean ST-3400/ST-3403?

I think you may be right but I cannot find a compatibility chart that says so in a perfectly clear fashion.

cheers