Cycling UK Forum

Edwards wrote:My feeling of this type of stunt is that is no different to throwing a plastic bottle in the sea for advertising.
It is just something that was never supposed to be there and should have been recycled.

It wasn't a stunt - it was a test flight.

Would you even be questioning it if he had used a lump of concrete like most rocket test flights?

^^^Nicely put.

The point of the launch was to demonstrate that Spacex's heavy lifters had lots of power and could be recovered, thus driving down the cost per kg lifted to LEO, which is where the money is to be made. A rocket that can send a car out to the asteroid belt can lift very big loads to LEO. Not as big as Atlas V, which is the usual example quoted by detractors, but an Atlas V launch cost $2bn in 2018 dollars, whereas a Falcon Heavy launch will cost around $95 million. There's a tremendous market there.

It doesn't even matter that they overshot Mars orbit. They showed power, flexibility, and manoeuvrability as demanded by the USAF. No wonder they're chuffed. More power to them.

Audax67 wrote:^^^Nicely put.

The point of the launch was to demonstrate that Spacex's heavy lifters had lots of power and could be recovered, thus driving down the cost per kg lifted to LEO, which is where the money is to be made. A rocket that can send a car out to the asteroid belt can lift very big loads to LEO. Not as big as Atlas V, which is the usual example quoted by detractors, but an Atlas V launch cost $2bn in 2018 dollars, whereas a Falcon Heavy launch will cost around $95 million. There's a tremendous market there.

It doesn't even matter that they overshot Mars orbit. They showed power, flexibility, and manoeuvrability as demanded by the USAF. No wonder they're chuffed. More power to them.

I don't think anyone's questioning the success of the rocket and it's capabilities,which as you rightly suggest is a fantastic achievement,it's the unnecessary space junk that's in queastion.

What is acceptable space junk? Is it the fact that the payload was a car (one of Tesla's upcoming products) that rankles?

The decision was made not to have a real(ly expensive) payload on the test flight for obvious reasons.

Space is big - really big, to coin the phrase. Surely there are things much, much closer to home to be concerned about?

Bonefishblues wrote:What is acceptable space junk? Is it the fact that the payload was a car (one of Tesla's upcoming products) that rankles?

The decision was made not to have a real(ly expensive) payload on the test flight for obvious reasons.

Space is big - really big, to coin the phrase. Surely there are things much, much closer to home to be concerned about?

I think the "Space Junk" concern is worse because a lot of this junk is all in similar'ish orbits so is not spread out over the "space is big" volume". Collisions have occurred in these commoner orbits e.g. a French military satellite was taken-out by remnants of an Arianne rocket (ironic?).

That said, I understood Musk's car is not going to one of the commoner orbits so will not really contribute to this risk.

Ian

reohn2 wrote:it's the unnecessary space junk that's in queastion.

Some "junk" was always going to go up, be it a concrete block or a car.

You could put every car ever built and that will ever be built up there and you'd struggle to find one again if you had your entire life to go looking.

And this is space; it's not a pristine mountain range with nice grasses, beautiful flowers and goats.
It's not even a wilderness, it's to all intensive purposes an infinite empty space and what is up there is the leftover mess of creation, chucking a car up there or even all the rubbish we ever made is meaningless both in scale and its effect.

The only valid complaint I can see is that perhaps he could have given the car to a deserving cause, but then ultimately he's saved money with all the free advertising along with surge of excitement he's generated amongst some of the younger members of society.

Engineering is cool again, it's cool to be clever and it's cool to push against those who say it can't be done.
Embrace it and rejoice. It's just one car.

I think space is better place for it than overtaking me at a pinch point...

LEO junk is a concern, and this Launch contributed nothing...

Atlas V sends 19ton to Leo, FH, 63.... and it is cheaper

reohn2 wrote:I don't think anyone's questioning the success of the rocket and it's capabilities,which as you rightly suggest is a fantastic achievement,it's the unnecessary space junk that's in queastion.

The three boosters returned, and the second stage is on its way to the asteroids. That vehicle, and the car, are now monuments on a level with the probes and dead vehicles left on the Moon and Mars (Venus and Titan having probably done for anything that landed there already). Anyone who finds them in the future will be delighted and probably rich, if radiation hasn't whittled them away - I can't see the plastic surviving long.

Audax67 wrote: if radiation hasn't whittled them away -^ I can't see the plastic surviving long.

I'm quite worried about the paintwork. Red isn't a great colour, fades in the sun something chronic.

A trip to Halfords will fix that.

Audax67 wrote:A trip to Halfords will fix that.

Given that it looks like they have somebody sitting in the car I suspect they went to Halfords before launch and had a good stock-up. Musk et. al. are good at planning ahead.

Ian

One of these guys will be up there to sort it out pdq, I'm sure

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/

kwackers wrote:

Audax67 wrote: if radiation hasn't whittled them away -^ I can't see the plastic surviving long.

I'm quite worried about the paintwork. Red isn't a great colour, fades in the sun something chronic.

Yes, but much of that process wants oxygen as well...

It will be interesting to see how it does (which we never will)

Audax67 wrote:

reohn2 wrote:I don't think anyone's questioning the success of the rocket and it's capabilities,which as you rightly suggest is a fantastic achievement,it's the unnecessary space junk that's in queastion.

The three boosters returned, and the second stage is on its way to the asteroids. That vehicle, and the car, are now monuments on a level with the probes and dead vehicles left on the Moon and Mars (Venus and Titan having probably done for anything that landed there already). Anyone who finds them in the future will be delighted and probably rich, if radiation hasn't whittled them away - I can't see the plastic surviving long.

I'll bet they said that about the plastic in the seas
Not content with littering our own planet we have to litter everyone else's,and all in the name of progress......

Anyway I've said all I wish to on the matter,I'll leave it at that.