The whole point of NOT being on A roads is that even if you are going the same way as the other vehicles, you are still confronting them.
If you are going 18mph and they are going 50mph
then you are confronting them at 32 mph
You are doing this sometimes within 20cms of the vehicle; Most cars give cyclists a wide berth.
Many do not.
If like the stalwart Andy Tallis, you do 320miles in week and you do it on "good" roads to see how fast you can do it, you CONFRONT
that many cars probably more than 6000 times
at 10 cars per minute 12000 times.
Of those 20 -100 may shave you within 20cms,
without you knowing anything about it.
If you were going in the opposite direction
you would not get so close, would you, within
a few centimetres and potential impact of more than 30mph, and yet there is no difference whatsoever in the damage they can do,
in either direction. they CONFRONT you, going with the flow at a slightly lesser impact than going against..
That is why I would like to ask an obvious novice why he/she does not use a bike path when a cycle path is available..
It is courting danger or serious injury.
Vehicle confrontation by bikes
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philw
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
>The whole point of NOT being on A roads is that even if you are going the same way as the other vehicles, you are still confronting them.
If you're going to shout it then you may as well check the definition first. That's simply not what the word means I'm afraid.
If you're going to shout it then you may as well check the definition first. That's simply not what the word means I'm afraid.
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gar
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
The whole point of NOT being on A roads is that even if you are going the same way as the other vehicles, you are still confronting them
As far as physics or mechanics is concerned it does. It is merely a matter of impact or collision. I prefer a scientific definition to a literary one I fear!
The reason I mentioned "rape" on the thread courting danger or a man in the context of a woman using a road instead of a cycle path,
if she thought she were as close to getting raped
every time a car went passed she would certainly used the cycle path!
Confronting a car in whichever direction you are going vis a vis the car, is tantamount
for a woman,to potential rape every few seconds.
As far as physics or mechanics is concerned it does. It is merely a matter of impact or collision. I prefer a scientific definition to a literary one I fear!
The reason I mentioned "rape" on the thread courting danger or a man in the context of a woman using a road instead of a cycle path,
if she thought she were as close to getting raped
every time a car went passed she would certainly used the cycle path!
Confronting a car in whichever direction you are going vis a vis the car, is tantamount
for a woman,to potential rape every few seconds.
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philw
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
I'm sorry. I was merely pointing out that your use of the language is incorrect. It's impossible to understand what you're trying to say if you don't use the accepted definition of words.
Your implied views on male rape are offensive and presumably a troll. Grow up.
Your implied views on male rape are offensive and presumably a troll. Grow up.
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gar
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
I am sorry that Phil cannot understand the
similarity between the possibility of a woman being raped and the possibility of her having an accident cycling on a very busy road.
I acknowledge that one is a criminal wrong,
crime against the person, whilst the other is
a road traffic offence. The effect on the
victim in any event may not be dissimilar.
Secondly
We probably do have the same understanding
of "confrontation" always assuming that a basic knowledge of theoretical mechanics is available to him.
If a cyclist is going in the same direction as a car and the cyclist is going at 10 and the
car at 60, then the potential impact is only 50
Whereas if the cyclist is going in the opposite direction at 10 and has a collision with a car going at 40 then the impact is also 50
If he is saying that 50 is not a confrontation
in one direction but a confrontation in the other,
then there is nothing I can do to help his understanding and wise use of the roads.
g
similarity between the possibility of a woman being raped and the possibility of her having an accident cycling on a very busy road.
I acknowledge that one is a criminal wrong,
crime against the person, whilst the other is
a road traffic offence. The effect on the
victim in any event may not be dissimilar.
Secondly
We probably do have the same understanding
of "confrontation" always assuming that a basic knowledge of theoretical mechanics is available to him.
If a cyclist is going in the same direction as a car and the cyclist is going at 10 and the
car at 60, then the potential impact is only 50
Whereas if the cyclist is going in the opposite direction at 10 and has a collision with a car going at 40 then the impact is also 50
If he is saying that 50 is not a confrontation
in one direction but a confrontation in the other,
then there is nothing I can do to help his understanding and wise use of the roads.
g
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Andy Tallis
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
The rear hit by a car accounts for only 5% of cycle car casulties and is about the only accident using a cycle track may help you to avoid.
I have NEVER come off on an A road or even a B road but have had some minor falls on minor roads and some spectacular skids on slippy cycle paths. I've also had kids hurl debris and abuse at me on a local track. That hasn't happened on the road yet.
Surely it is the motorists responsibility not to overtake within 20cm? Riding a good way out from the kerb can help: You're more visible, they are more inclined to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic and you have a gap to move into if they do try to tickle your hip with their wing mirror.
I have NEVER come off on an A road or even a B road but have had some minor falls on minor roads and some spectacular skids on slippy cycle paths. I've also had kids hurl debris and abuse at me on a local track. That hasn't happened on the road yet.
Surely it is the motorists responsibility not to overtake within 20cm? Riding a good way out from the kerb can help: You're more visible, they are more inclined to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic and you have a gap to move into if they do try to tickle your hip with their wing mirror.
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gar
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
The rear hit by a car accounts for only 5% of cycle car casulties and is about the only accident using a cycle track may help you to avoid.
That is a good way of describing it "rear hit".
Thanks for the figure of 5%.
Your comments assume that the cyclist has all his wits about him to vehicles from the rear, which is essential training. I always draw in the nearer the vehicle gets and hug the kerb as he passes. If I hear him in the distance then I actually draw out further into the road until he is nearer and then hug the kerb.... he's got space and I've got space and everybody is happy.
Thank you for your comments Andy. They are very helpful even to me on my recumbent.
I hope you do well with that Paris-Brest thing.
600km in how many hours.... about 15? Some going!!
That is a good way of describing it "rear hit".
Thanks for the figure of 5%.
Your comments assume that the cyclist has all his wits about him to vehicles from the rear, which is essential training. I always draw in the nearer the vehicle gets and hug the kerb as he passes. If I hear him in the distance then I actually draw out further into the road until he is nearer and then hug the kerb.... he's got space and I've got space and everybody is happy.
Thank you for your comments Andy. They are very helpful even to me on my recumbent.
I hope you do well with that Paris-Brest thing.
600km in how many hours.... about 15? Some going!!
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GreenArrow
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
I've followed this thread for a while, and thought I'd be brave and as a newbie to the site offer another view.
I'm a female cyclist, and ride a recumbent trike. Yes, I do use the main roads most of the time, particularly in the evenings. The reasons are simple: having had abuse, threats and even missiles hurled my way when I use shared paths and/or quiet streets, I prefer the main roads. Being followed by a gang of local yoblets whilst winching your way up a hill is quite frankly frightening.
Also, cycle paths are generally poorly surfaced, unlit, covered in debris, narrow and used by joggers in my area. Oh, and the "bike gates" are rather tricky to negotiate on a trike!
Since I went from two wheels to three, I don't seem to have any problem with other traffic- even taxi drivers give me loads of room when overtaking. Maybe it's because I don't (can't) sneak down the inside and jump the queue and am seen as another road vehicle?
As for roundabouts: often much easier to negotiate as a part of the traffic than by crossing side roads. Have you ever tried to get a trike through those centre refuges?
Maybe those other people riding on the road have good reasons too, huh?
I'm a female cyclist, and ride a recumbent trike. Yes, I do use the main roads most of the time, particularly in the evenings. The reasons are simple: having had abuse, threats and even missiles hurled my way when I use shared paths and/or quiet streets, I prefer the main roads. Being followed by a gang of local yoblets whilst winching your way up a hill is quite frankly frightening.
Also, cycle paths are generally poorly surfaced, unlit, covered in debris, narrow and used by joggers in my area. Oh, and the "bike gates" are rather tricky to negotiate on a trike!
Since I went from two wheels to three, I don't seem to have any problem with other traffic- even taxi drivers give me loads of room when overtaking. Maybe it's because I don't (can't) sneak down the inside and jump the queue and am seen as another road vehicle?
As for roundabouts: often much easier to negotiate as a part of the traffic than by crossing side roads. Have you ever tried to get a trike through those centre refuges?
Maybe those other people riding on the road have good reasons too, huh?
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gar
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
Ah well! I have never found the centre refuges a problem with three wheels. They do take knowing though.
I prefer the main roads. Being followed by a gang of local yoblets whilst winching your way up a hill is quite frankly frightening. I s'pse the one way of avoiding them would be to turn about and belt down the hill instead, if there were any sign of hot pursuit!
I'm sorry you prefer main roads but there are probably other good reaons too.
I prefer the main roads. Being followed by a gang of local yoblets whilst winching your way up a hill is quite frankly frightening. I s'pse the one way of avoiding them would be to turn about and belt down the hill instead, if there were any sign of hot pursuit!
I'm sorry you prefer main roads but there are probably other good reaons too.
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Mrs Tortoise
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
It's not only drivers who are a pain in the saddle. In recent weeks I've had three incidents of having to swerve or stop because pedestrians have walked across in front of me, without looking. Are they more stupid around Dorchester, or is it a national thing?
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Andy Tallis
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
It does seem to be a national thing. I thought it was bad in Salisbury (Wiltshire) but moving to Bangor (North Wales, a unioversity town) seemed to make that look tame.
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gar
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
Perhaps it is becoz peds have more town centre freedom NOT to look where they are going than they used to.
Saying that the people of Dorchester Dorset are a peculiar lot; it's to do with the Duchy property; to big for the boots of the older town. I go other places to shop these days. there are plenty of cyclists in Casterbridge though.
Saying that the people of Dorchester Dorset are a peculiar lot; it's to do with the Duchy property; to big for the boots of the older town. I go other places to shop these days. there are plenty of cyclists in Casterbridge though.
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mel
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
We have to face the fact that on the road we are vulnerable on bicycles and in most cases at the mercy of the motor vehicle driver. The driver could be a psychopath, someone who is medically unfit to be driving, someone who is just inattentive or just a lousy driver, I'm sure I have encountered all of these in my cycling career and it is only by the grace of god that I'm here writing this now. I hope I haven't spoken too soon!!!!
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Mrs Tortoise
Re:Vehicle confrontation by bikes
Mel, I sincerely hope your luck continues to hold.
As a fair weather cyclist, I cycle for exercise and enjoyment, I have recently adopted a new form of exercise to while away the dark nights, until I can get my bike out more often. Its an exercise which might help in confrontation with other road users too. It's Karate, and so far it has produced some very good exercise. I can thoroughly recommend it for stretching taught hamstrings, as well as the self defence aspect.
As a fair weather cyclist, I cycle for exercise and enjoyment, I have recently adopted a new form of exercise to while away the dark nights, until I can get my bike out more often. Its an exercise which might help in confrontation with other road users too. It's Karate, and so far it has produced some very good exercise. I can thoroughly recommend it for stretching taught hamstrings, as well as the self defence aspect.