Arnside to Grange-over Sands

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
arnsider
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

Re-visiting the thread, I caught the train across from Arnside to Grange on Wednesday last, with my bike.
Apart from wearing a mask (my buff, pulled up over my mouth), the journey was fine and I had a chat with the train guard over the current state of play.
Seemingly, the regulations regarding carriage of vital workers only have been somewhat relaxed and since social separation measures on train are in place, it is okay to use the train by bike in off peak times.
I repeat my ridicule of any attempt to construct an add on walkway on the viaduct and the waste of time and money( lots by donations) incurred in "feasibilty studies"
However, a useful adjunct to the existing station stops, might be a request Halt positioned close to the Grange abutment, with a permissive bridleway connecting the Halt to the Cumbria Coastal Way via Marsh Villa. This would be considerably cheaper than any bridge works and obviate another closure.
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by pwa »

I will be cycling over this structure in a few weeks from now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7176464 ... 3?hl=en-GB

It is a bit of a draw for tourists, especially those who like walking and cycling, and is a real feature of the location. I'm a bit surprised you don't want something similar for Arnside, but there we are. You live there and I don't.
arnsider
Posts: 449
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

I'm almost sure that Barmouth viaduct was built with the public walkway. A toll was levied up until a few years back and I remember paying a couple of shillings at the Barmouth end. People fished off the bridge path for Bass.
At the west end of Arnside viaduct is a small hamlet without a pub, whereas Fairbourne is quite a sizeable place with shops, a cafe and a narrow gauge railway that draws visitors. You also have the Mawddach trail starting at the old Morfa Mawddach junction, a very busy cycling place.
pwa
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Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by pwa »

arnsider wrote:I'm almost sure that Barmouth viaduct was built with the public walkway. A toll was levied up until a few years back and I remember paying a couple of shillings at the Barmouth end. People fished off the bridge path for Bass.
At the west end of Arnside viaduct is a small hamlet without a pub, whereas Fairbourne is quite a sizeable place with shops, a cafe and a narrow gauge railway that draws visitors. You also have the Mawddach trail starting at the old Morfa Mawddach junction, a very busy cycling place.

When I last visited Arnside (with kids in tow) it was very nice to look at, and we ate at one of the local eateries, but then we got back into the car to go somewhere with more to do. It felt like a dead end with nowhere to go. And the prospect of being able to walk or cycle across the estuary seems to me to be very attractive. I appreciate it would cost an arm and a leg, but it would enliven the whole area in a good way. But if local people don't want it I wouldn't want it foisted on them. As it is, Morecambe Bay as whole is somewhere I wouldn't go to cycle.
arnsider
Posts: 449
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

Walking or cycling across the estuary may be a novelty to some, but the costs involved are enormous and the benefit only to those thus gratified.
The existing railway has already got stations close to the crossing and with a bit of new construction, the facility of crossing from and alighting at each end is achievable.
The desireability of the area is a matter of opinion and if it remains a well kept secret,I would be most pleased.
The return ticket from Arnside to Grange costs around £2.50.
Tinkering with the viaduct would cost millions!
pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by pwa »

arnsider wrote:Walking or cycling across the estuary may be a novelty to some, but the costs involved are enormous and the benefit only to those thus gratified.
The existing railway has already got stations close to the crossing and with a bit of new construction, the facility of crossing from and alighting at each end is achievable.
The desireability of the area is a matter of opinion and if it remains a well kept secret,I would be most pleased.
The return ticket from Arnside to Grange costs around £2.50.
Tinkering with the viaduct would cost millions!

You may or may not be familiar with it, but near Llanelli on the S.Wales coast there is mile after mile after mile of traffic-free cycle / pedestrian path following estuaries and bays, some of it away from buildings and rich in wildlife and some of it more urban, but all of it family friendly and populated by smiling people who have left their cars behind. That is what I thought of when I went to Arnside and saw all the parked cars beside that wonderful estuary, and no way for the people to get around the estuary on foot or by bike. I wanted to get stuck in to exploring under my own steam, not on a train, but couldn't because there was no path.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.678,-4. ... 3?hl=en-GB

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6852074 ... 3?hl=en-GB

Morecambe Bay is a funny place. Because it is so treacherous you mostly just have to look at it from the shore, and even then there are parts of the shore you can't get to. But in these cash strapped times we are unlikely to see major spending on things like this.
arnsider
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

Really!
It begs the question, have you looked at the map?
If you had, you would see that the other side of the estuary from Arnside is easily accessible either on foot, by car or cycling.
The fact there is a station with hourly trains from Manchestere Airport anmd Barrow in Furness renders Arndise easily accessible without your car.
Parking is all free. Behind the town is the climb to the Knott. A nice walk with superb views over the Lakeland fells. Its summit is surrounded on all sides by open access woodland right down to a karst foreshore on the seaward side.
On the opposite side of the estuary are easy single track roads and footpaths with the Cumbria Coastal way footpath and Foulshaw Moss, a reserve with breeding Ospreys.
As said, for a very small price, a family complete with bikes could spend all day riding in grand country.
Indeed the clockwise ride around the head of the estuary and back to Arnside is all flat going on fairly quiet roads.
I really cannot see Joe public being fooled into donating hundreds of thousands of pounds into the hair brain bridge scheme when all that is needed is a simple un manned request Halt with a ticket machine (rather like the similarly placed one at Morfa Mawddach).
Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Arnside viaduct question

Post by Tangled Metal »

A few years ago there was something about the train viaduct having maintenance work and upgrading. Part of initial study of options I believe that looked at adding a mixed use path along it.

I've not heard anything about it in the last few years. Does anyone know what the state of play with it is? I assume money meant it was fantasy to think they would add a mixed use path alongside the line. It's possibly less of a fantasy project than Heysham to Barrow viaduct though.

Any news?
arnsider
Posts: 449
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

The bay may be treacherous, but there are regular guided walks right across the sands at low tide.
There is even an official "Queens guide" as historically, the sands were a coaching route.
On the North side of Barrow in Furness is the Duddon estuary with the backdrop of Black Combe and the Coniston Fells.
All of the bay is accessible from the coastal railway that runs all the way around west cumbria to Carlisle on the Solway.
There are a myriad of quiet lanes hugging the coastal plain.
A cracking hard ride of just under thirty miles is from Raven glass to Ulverston, via Birker Fell, the pass between Ulpha and Broughton Mills, the mountain road from Woodland to Gawthwaite and the drop back down to Ulverston.
You can get the train from Ulverston to Ravenglass to start this ride.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by Tangled Metal »

Is that forbids footbridge idea any more daft than the Heysham to Barrow bridge that apparently has the support of councillors and MPs from both ends and all main parties? Neither is likely to happen but IMHO the Arnside option is the better project to actually happen.

Cost? AIUI the engineering company that was hired to come up with design options for the upgrade of the viaduct for the rail network read also employed to cost a mixed use path. They determined that the upgrade could be done alongside the creation of the path with relativity small cost implication compared to the cost of upgrading or maintaining the rail infrastructure. I can't find the report now though. Perhaps it was reported on this site because I'm certain I find the report from a link on here.

Personally I don't care much because I don't actually like the part of Cumbria immediately over the estuary from Arnside. If there was an path I'd prefer to go north but with a 7 year old I couldn't travel far enough in a day. I might end up moving to the Arnside area so my view on the path idea might change?

I'm not a fan on using trains with bikes in this country? As a cycling family it's not as easy to use trains with bikes when there's three or more of you. As a solo rider (if that's what you are) I can easily see how it's ok. BTW are they still using some really old rolling stock? Living on the line we've travelled on the wide range of rolling stock used on that line. My partner even used to catch a train with a guards van that took her bike. That was heading towards Lancaster.

Morecambe bay cycle routes has some good cycle ride sections but IMHO the section from North Carnforth round you Grange area doesn't quite work for me. A path over the viaduct would help with that I reckon.
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by pwa »

arnsider wrote:Really!
It begs the question, have you looked at the map?
If you had, you would see that the other side of the estuary from Arnside is easily accessible either on foot, by car or cycling.
The fact there is a station with hourly trains from Manchestere Airport anmd Barrow in Furness renders Arndise easily accessible without your car.
Parking is all free. Behind the town is the climb to the Knott. A nice walk with superb views over the Lakeland fells. Its summit is surrounded on all sides by open access woodland right down to a karst foreshore on the seaward side.
On the opposite side of the estuary are easy single track roads and footpaths with the Cumbria Coastal way footpath and Foulshaw Moss, a reserve with breeding Ospreys.
As said, for a very small price, a family complete with bikes could spend all day riding in grand country.
Indeed the clockwise ride around the head of the estuary and back to Arnside is all flat going on fairly quiet roads.
I really cannot see Joe public being fooled into donating hundreds of thousands of pounds into the hair brain bridge scheme when all that is needed is a simple un manned request Halt with a ticket machine (rather like the similarly placed one at Morfa Mawddach).

Just to be clear, I do like Arnside and Silverdale and have done since I first visited the area in the 1980s with a friend who was an otter enthusiast, and I have enjoyed climbing the hill behind Arnside. But when I was last there I was struck by how odd it was that there was no pedestrian / cycle crossing to the opposite bank. It seemed like the missing piece to me. But I take your point about the train alternative.
Last edited by pwa on 11 Jul 2020, 10:05am, edited 1 time in total.
arnsider
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Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

Well, I've never heard of AIUI and googling, even suffixing "Engineering" produced nothing.
Gifford and Partners produced design drawings on the replacement decks and all the enabling works at the abutments and Fairfield Mabey fabricated and installed the decks.
The regulation access paths down each side of the up and down lines extend to the faces of the brick/concrete core piers.
Any add ons will have to be cantilevered independently with anchorages in the piers. This would be a monumentally expensive and disruptive construction and for what?
Appaerently, the original structure had iron piers and the brickwork is an afterthought.
The bridge is about 500 meters in length and the tide range and velocity is considerable.
Windspeeds and visibilty can be extremely challenging for pedestrians and would necessitate monitoring and closures.
Your comments on the attractiveness or otherwise of the area are yours and not are shared by the increasing numbers of cyclists coming to the area.
Going around the top of the bay need only involve very short bits of the old A6 and a crossing of the A590 at Gilpin.
From Milnethorpe bridge to the A6 just south of Levens bridge is remeniscent of crossing the Somerset levels on straight C class roads.
The Cumbria Coastal way can then be followed to Gilpin, then the old A590 alignment under Whitbarrow Scar to Derby Arms is used and that is almost car free.
Ducking under the 590 at Derby Arms takes you onto Meathop Moss and all the way to Grange Golf Cluib is quiet almost traffic free C roads.
Going north from Milnethorpe to Gilpin gives you expansive views of the whole of the Eastern Fells.
To detract the scenic value of the area is odd in the extreme.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by Jdsk »

arnsider wrote:Well, I've never heard of AIUI and googling, even suffixing "Engineering" produced nothing.

I wonder if that might be "As I understand it"?
https://www.google.com/search?q=AIUI

Jonathan
arnsider
Posts: 449
Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am
Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by arnsider »

Ha Ha!!
Sorry for being such a retard!!!
jb
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Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 12:17pm
Location: Clitheroe

Re: Arnside to Grange-over Sands

Post by jb »

I remember going with my dad to bolt painted metal plate samples onto the viaduct piers. Happy days waiting for the bore to come racing up the estuary.
Cheers
J Bro
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