Tiagra versus Dura Ace

[neilob]

Tongue-in-cheek post but with a serious element. Like many, I am a brand victim. Sorry. I have a Dura Ace groupset (7800) on my Colnago which works really well and looks the part. I also have a brand new Tiagra 4700 groupset on another bike which in truth offers far better gear ratios and seems to work just as well with crisp and positive shifting and excellent braking. My sad dilemma is that I want to swap the groupsets over but somehow feel that Tiagra demeans a Colnago. Am I being stupid? Does modern Tiagra really perform as well as older Dura Ace? Will I be hounded out of the Italian bike fraternity? Should I care?

[fossala]

You should already be banned from the "Italian bike fraternity" for having a fishing reel companies groupset on your Colnago.

[Brucey]

the tiagra works pretty well but parts of it just don't last as long as DA before they wear.

Given the 'chinarello' syndrome, etc some folks clearly care more about what the stickers say than what lies beneath them.

More fool them, I say.

cheers

[nigelnightmare]

You should already be banned from the "Italian bike fraternity" for having a fishing reel companies groupset on your Colnago.

And they used to make such nice fishing reels too.

[Samuel D]

They all change gear quickly and reliably if properly set up and maintained. The expensive ones maybe clunk more delicately while doing so. So what! They also use pricier consumables.

The more expensive brakes tend to work a little better, which I suppose matters more.

There are other differences though, and they matter if you’re fussy or expect to use the bicycle for a long time. For example, hollow cranks start at 105 level. (Whether hollow cranks, i.e. lighter and/or stiffer cranks, are worth their apparently higher failure rate – maybe because of unpredictable roughness on the inside that leads to stress concentrations? – is another matter!) And I have a Dura-Ace rear derailleur because it was the only one with ball bearings in both pulleys. That may have changed lately; I haven’t kept up with the details since I have no interest in volunteering for the cost and other problems of 11-speed.

[AndyA]

I've been rather impressed with Tiagra 4700 as well. Initially I bemoaned the change of shift ratios/cable pull, lack of backwards compatibility and horrible chainrings but the upshot is that rear shifting is better than any other Shimano 10 speed setup. The gear levers feel great too

[pwa]

Buying a Colnago tells the world that you buy into all the road race heritage stuff. To kit it out with budget components makes financial and mechanical sense, but it is like putting budget tyres on a Rolls Royce. Why? Why have a frameset that says you care about the finer details and components that say you just want kit that does what it says on the tin? It sends out mixed messages.

[Cugel]

Buying a Colnago tells the world that you buy into all the road race heritage stuff. To kit it out with budget components makes financial and mechanical sense, but it is like putting budget tyres on a Rolls Royce. Why? Why have a frameset that says you care about the finer details and components that say you just want kit that does what it says on the tin? It sends out mixed messages.

Who is being messaged? What is the message intended? "I am a fashion victim"?

Tiagra seems cost-effective, functionally-effective and even aesthetically "effective". Dura Ace is for Rolls Royce buyers, who are generally in the category "too much money and too little sense". This category often co-incides with the category: "fashion victim of the bling-attracted bad-taste variety". Oh yes it does!

Cugel, differentiating between bicycles and frocks.

[pwa]

Buying a Colnago tells the world that you buy into all the road race heritage stuff. To kit it out with budget components makes financial and mechanical sense, but it is like putting budget tyres on a Rolls Royce. Why? Why have a frameset that says you care about the finer details and components that say you just want kit that does what it says on the tin? It sends out mixed messages.

Who is being messaged? What is the message intended? "I am a fashion victim"?

Tiagra seems cost-effective, functionally-effective and even aesthetically "effective". Dura Ace is for Rolls Royce buyers, who are generally in the category "too much money and too little sense". This category often co-incides with the category: "fashion victim of the bling-attracted bad-taste variety". Oh yes it does!

Cugel, differentiating between bicycles and frocks.

I agree. I'm more Tiagra than Dura Ace. But Colnago is for people who buy into the myths, the legends, the romance. Putting sensible Tiagra on a Colnago is a bit too mixed message for me. I wouldn't buy a Colnago in the first place, partly because it does limit you to following through with exotic components.

[thirdcrank]

... brand new Tiagra 4700 groupset on another bike which in truth offers far better gear ratios ...

I think there may be a clue here. It's a long time since I checked the specs of any groupset, in particular things like max sprocket/ smallest chainring, but AFAIK, Dura Ace is racing oriented, with no concessions. eg In the days when you could buy a triple which looked like a road double but with a 30T small ring save many riders from too much struggling up hills I don't think it was available in Dura Ace. Ditto compact double. Ditto 15T - junior racing - smallest sprocket.

Another - non-Shimano - point, is that once upon a time, buying the most expensive kit you could afford - generally Campag Record / Super Record - meant you were set up for the forseeable. Do that now and your stuff will be "last year" almost before you fit it. That's not just about fashion but compatibility. Buying cheaper stuff will make keeping up-to-date easier.

[Cugel]

Buying a Colnago tells the world that you buy into all the road race heritage stuff. To kit it out with budget components makes financial and mechanical sense, but it is like putting budget tyres on a Rolls Royce. Why? Why have a frameset that says you care about the finer details and components that say you just want kit that does what it says on the tin? It sends out mixed messages.

Who is being messaged? What is the message intended? "I am a fashion victim"?

Tiagra seems cost-effective, functionally-effective and even aesthetically "effective". Dura Ace is for Rolls Royce buyers, who are generally in the category "too much money and too little sense". This category often co-incides with the category: "fashion victim of the bling-attracted bad-taste variety". Oh yes it does!

Cugel, differentiating between bicycles and frocks.

I agree. I'm more Tiagra than Dura Ace. But Colnago is for people who buy into the myths, the legends, the romance. Putting sensible Tiagra on a Colnago is a bit too mixed message for me. I wouldn't buy a Colnago in the first place, partly because it does limit you to following through with exotic components.

That is a syndrome. Even I, a non frock wearer, have succumbed to red bling on my nice summer bike. One gets quite obsessive, even down to the colour co-ordinated cable end crimps. I can't go as far as buying exotic Italian components or anything other than something priced in the mid-range. Mind, I always gets the best tyres .... but only in the half-price sale. This is a functional choice though. Oh yes it is!

Also, I have bought some shoes which, although inexpensive, very functional and not that fashionable, are colour co-ordinated with my club jersey. I even changed the laces to the right colour to get a perfect match......

Perhaps I have become a bike-tart and not realised it! No wonder the others were pointing and sniggering.

Cugel

[Brucey]

.... but AFAIK, Dura Ace is racing oriented, with no concessions. eg In the days when you could buy a triple which looked like a road double but with a 30T small ring save many riders from too much struggling up hills I don't think it was available in Dura Ace.....

DA triple groupsets were made in the 9s era but are not available in 11s form.

Interestingly the middle ring is a 'converter' design, so (with small mods) you can use these chainrings to convert a double chainset to a triple.

cheers

[thirdcrank]

I live and learn

[De Sisti]

You should already be banned from the "Italian bike fraternity" for having a fishing reel companies groupset on your Colnago.

The Dutch Rabobank team use to ride Colnago bikes with Shimano groupsets. Don't think it bothered any
of their riders or mechanics.

[neilob]

I don’t think it was Shimano that was the issue but the move downwards to Tiagra from DA. Anyway, I have decided to stick with the current build of DA but to temporarily replace the short cage rear mech with a long cage ‘something’ and fit a compact chainset. That will give me 34/32 in extreme situations...plenty enough for me. I did say it was a tongue in cheek post, and that I was a brand victim. I agree with much said above by all sides. But that new Tiagra is an excellent groupset and tremendous value even if it is not destined for my Colnago.