DIY Respray

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Shoogle
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DIY Respray

Postby Shoogle » 12 May 2018, 12:07am

Has anybody here done a DIY respray? What paint did you use. How many coats, laquer etc? I fancy doing it myself as I'm not too fussy if it doesn't turn out perfectly. I did it on an old bike I had in the eighties. I think it was something like a couple of coats of Hammerite, put on with a brush. I didn't even remove all the components; just masked them off. It looked hideous but I could live with it.

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NUKe
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby NUKe » 12 May 2018, 1:02am

What are you painting and what do you want achieve? I have used rattle cans,or brushed on smoothrite in the past.
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pwa
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby pwa » 12 May 2018, 8:15am

I think today's Hammerite is not the same as Hammerite from the 80s, probably for safety / toxicity reasons, and I don't find it anywhere near as tough.

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Si
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby Si » 12 May 2018, 8:42am

Ive rattle canned one (completely removing old paint with nitromoose, etch priming, spraying and laquering), and hammerited another. The initial finish was ok but it just d0esnt last like a proper job. Indeed, when you take into account the expense of the materials, the faff, and how you'll have to redo it sooner you are probably better off going to your local powder coater.

pwa
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby pwa » 12 May 2018, 8:45am

Yes, it's not especially cheap to do, it's a faff, and you are likely to have to keep re-doing bits that don't last so well.

Brucey
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby Brucey » 12 May 2018, 8:47am

lack of toughness is generally true of most DIY paint jobs. Basically almost anything you can buy in a DIY shop for spraying or brushing on is unlikely to be anywhere near as tough as the kind of paints that professionals use. Powder coat and 2K paints are used by professionals; both can be incredibly tough vs (say) a typical rattle can paint.

A good compromise (toughness wise) is to use several coats of cellulose primer first. This is pretty tough and provides a strong base for the colour coat, so that in service even if the colour coat gets chipped at least it doesn't go through to the metal every time and start rusting.

You can buy aerosols of 2K lacquer (and other paints too). They work by keeping the ingredients separate until you need to paint; you punch a button in the bottom of the aerosol can and the two parts then mix. There are a few downsides to these

1) the fumes may well be toxic (many 2K paints release cyanide fumes... not nice at all)
2) once mixed you need to get on and use the contents of the can within a couple of weeks
3) the aerosols are fiercely expensive, about £20 (or more) each.

Using rattle cans you can make a paint job look superb if you work at it. Making it durable is another thing entirely.

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foxyrider
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby foxyrider » 12 May 2018, 8:51am

Me and a mate decided to do his tandem ourselves as the shop price was 'a lot'.

After stripping down to bare frame we took it back to metal so we started clean. IIRC we rattle canned red oxide then a couple of coats of base primer, flatting between. Then it was top coat using automotive quality paint, it needed 3 coats then after adding decals it had two coats of lacquer - all rattle cans.

It was air dried, we had a fairly dust free area we could do it in, took about a month all told.

Whilst we had the satisfaction of doing it i'm not sure we saved anything, the rattlecans were @ 20 quid a pop and it used about three per coat!

It did look pretty good, it looked professional and stood up very well to knocks and bashes.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

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Mick F
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby Mick F » 12 May 2018, 9:06am

I did it years ago a couple of times with my old Hercules.
It took more cans than I'd have thought - I found out that it's obvious really as you are spraying onto narrow tubes rather than a flat surface, so much of the spray is lost.

This was back in the 1960s, so I tried again in the 90s with a Mixte frame. I gave up trying to get the old paint off so found a local sandblaster. I took the frame and fork to him and he asked if I wanted it powdercoated. I accepted, and collected the finished items a few days later.

Far Far Far easier than DIY and if my memory serves me correctly, it cost £30 or so all in.
Mick F. Cornwall

rjb
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby rjb » 12 May 2018, 9:30am

I brush painted an old frame approx 20 years ago. I only lightly sanded down the old frame and painted a cellulose top coat straight on. Careful application meant the brush strokes weren't visible and it gave a finish which still looks ok today.
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

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Shoogle
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby Shoogle » 12 May 2018, 12:23pm

I think you lot have put me off. If I was to make a decent job of it, the bike could be off the road for days, or even weeks and I have only one bike. I think I'll look for a local professional.

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willcee
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby willcee » 12 May 2018, 12:44pm

Professional, yes BUT don't expect to rebuild immediately, a good job is to get it into a warm environ for a couple of weeks,most pros will be using water based paint that is unless you demand 2k or twopack paint 2k is oven baked ,water based is lamp dried for small jobs like a bike frame, so it needs curing time, the silly thing is the primer is as Brucey says.. isocyanite, dangerous, needs air fed mask in a pro shop, then a sandwich of water based paint, then sealer top coats of lacquer which again is iso based.. rattle cans are ok if you have a pro use them, warm frame and warm paint several good coats, and then the best lacquer they use over the top , decals fitted and then another top coat.. Frames are notoriously difficult to paint properly, so many hard to access corners and joints.. powder coating is ok but i wouldn't have it on a decent frame..my last one was a Gazelle done by a cyclist friend , carbody painter, in a fetching Skoda pearl flam finish, its absolutely brilliant cured it for nearly a month and it was still a wee bit soft..
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hamster
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby hamster » 14 May 2018, 9:35am

Consider the amount of time, paint and materials you get through. I have discovered through bitter experience that £50 at the local powder coaters is cheaper, faster and easier. It also results in a better finish!

thirdcrank
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby thirdcrank » 14 May 2018, 10:08am

pwa wrote:I think today's Hammerite is not the same as Hammerite from the 80s, probably for safety / toxicity reasons, and I don't find it anywhere near as tough.


In the early 1980's I handpainted a frame with Smoothrite as it used to be called and I was totally satisfied, given that I gave it minimum preparation and only one generous coat. It was still sound a dozen years later when I retired and dumped my winter hacks; the main point being it had kept the salt out through all those winters of commuting.

More recently, I had some railings and a security matching gate over the back door fitted when we were burgled. Again, excellent results and I didn't immediately understand the widely-heard comments that Hammerite and Hammerite Smooth (as I think Smoothrite is now called) are a couple of the fings which ain't wot they used ter be. Then it dawned on me that I'd used the second can of the stuff bought when I thought my frame might need two coats. Finnigans (sp?) who used to make a vast range of specialist paints including Waxoyl - all advertised with implausible claims which were totally justified - are no more. The brand names remain on different products, probably better for the planet in general and individual users in particular, but produced by others.

MikeF
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby MikeF » 14 May 2018, 10:14am

I don't know much at all about paint on bike frames.
Are new bike frames powder coated now? If not what paint is used?
Does shot blasting affect the frame? Are any precautions needed?
Is it better to use a professional bike sprayer/restorer or is any suitable professional sprayer/car body shop OK?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

hamster
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Re: DIY Respray

Postby hamster » 14 May 2018, 10:37am

Good questions Mike. I've had three powder coaters do frames for me, all local.
It's worth a chat with them on the phone. Two were very used to bikes and asked a lot of very good questions before starting the job, clearly showing their experience. All threads etc were masked off.

The frames were grit blasted in one case (old powdercoat) and bead blasted in the others (old enamel). I wouldn't allow a grit blaster near an old thin steel frame that might have a bit of inside corrosion, for fear it could perforate.

Modern steel and aluminium frames tend to be powder coated. I can thoroughly recommend Solent Powder finishers, they have done work for me and several friends. http://www.solentpowderfinishers.co.uk/