Cycling UK Forum

the Brompton's design is (vigorously) protected by various copyrights and patents, so you are not going to get a 'cheap copy of a Brompton'. There are lots of other folding bikes out there, each trying to fill a particular niche. Just as a handbuilt lightweight bike is not the same as a more cheaply made bike, most other folding bikes are cheaper, not as well made, and not as good.

Folding bikes only work really well if they use a lot of parts that are not standard cycle parts. IME when you buy a cheaper bike you are greatly reducing the chances that those special parts will be as well thought-out, as well made, or as readily available as spare parts as with a Brompton.

BTW it seems like Bromptons are expensive; however they cost about the same (in relative terms) as a basic three-speed Raleigh would have in the 1980s. In terms of what they do for a typical commuter, they are an absolute bargain. As well as train travel, folks will often use a bike like this simply to be able to take it indoors and not leave it outside to be nicked....

cheers

It may be good for riders and the market as a whole, but it wouldn't be good for Brompton, who hold patents (although the original 1979 one may have expired by now), assert that non-functional aspects of the design (such as cable routing) are subject to copyright and have successfully pursued makers of competing bi-fold designs through the courts for copyright and stealing trade secrets, including one of their former licensed manufacturers.

They're not alone in that, as Dahon have also taken other makers to court over the design of the custom parts, although I think they don't get the same sort of criticism for it because they seem to license their old designs more liberally.

We have had a succession of protectionist governments when it comes to design work and there's no end in sight.

i wonder if some in China they are being knocked out by the thousand

hondated wrote:Maybe I have missed it but I am amazed that no one has designed a cheaper version of a Brompton as they certainly do not seem to be decreasing in price. I know there are alternatives but they leave a lot to be desired. Surely a decent equivalent would be good for the market and consumer

Wot Brucey sez, really. Every now and then a decent looking alternative comes along and is heralded as a "Brompton Killer", but even the better ones (say, the Mezzo) turn out to be similarly reliant on special bits and similarly expensive. And lacking in a few years (or rather decades) of tweaking and evolution that have rounded off the rough edges. With the rough edges unsanded, and without the advantages of being well known in the market, these "game changing" "Brompton Killers" generally do nothing to change the game and Brompton remains resolutely (and IMHO deservedly) alive.

A folder is a compromise between folding and riding. A lot of the magic of the Brom design is hitting a particularly sweet sport along the line where it rides close enough to A Generic Bike not to make much difference yet packs away smaller than any of its rivals that ride as well. You can get more convenient packaging (e.g. Sinclair A) but the ride is pants, or you can get better performance (e.g. Birdys, Airnimals, some of the hotter Dahons) but that won't slide between train seats or on to luggage racks.

If it weren't for the patents you could just knock off nasty copies, of course, but that's not really what I'd call "design". And if you've ever compared a RSW16 to a Moulton you'll probably be wary of things that primarily look the part but cost a lot less...

Pete.

There have been brompton copies, i remeber seeing one that looked identical to a brommie apart from having derailer gears and being half the price. Word was that they fell apart pretty quickly. I think brompton have since got medieval with the patents.

mercalia wrote:i wonder if some in China they are being knocked out by the thousand

I travel a lot in SE and W Asia and have never seen a Chinese copy. You do see quite a few genuine Bromptons (or are they just very good copies?).

I'm sure I saw a while back Brompton stating that one of the reasons they stay producing in the UK is their production methods are harder to steal compared to producing in overseas factories. Their intellectual property is quite extensive I think.

An interesting insight here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/intellectual-property-brompton

Thank you .

According to Brompton the patents ran out years ago. There have been copies, at one point Brompton licensed the design to a Far East company who tried to continue building them after the contract was ended. The problem has always been the copies and Bromptonalikes have always been poorly built.

Almost everyone I’ve spoken to who has had other legitimate (ie non copied) fold up bikes has ended up buying a Brompton. They are expensive, but hold their value very well and parts are available worldwide.

I’ve just read the book and watched several Brompton videos as I ordered a M6L last week.

simonhill wrote:

mercalia wrote:i wonder if some in China they are being knocked out by the thousand

I travel a lot in SE and W Asia and have never seen a Chinese copy. You do see quite a few genuine Bromptons (or are they just very good copies?).

They do exist. I have a Merc, bought s/h about 15 years ago. It is an exact Brompton clone made in China with an aluminium frame. The frame and fold are OK but everything is cheap and the rear chain tensioner was made of plastic so soft it basically did not work. I replaced it with the original Brompton part which works much better.

On the whole it is a pretty terrible bike and I always feel a bit dirty riding it. But for the occasional times I need a proper folder, it does the job.

There are a great many folding bikes following Andrew Ritchie's brilliant design which are built and sold in Asia. 3Sixty, B-Bike, Chedech, Cigna, Crosshead, Flamingo, Fova, Groo, Java, La Bici, MIT, Neo, Pico, Sanye, United and Viking are just some of the brand names. These range from slapdash copies of the Brompton Mk II up through ranges of quality to titanium and carbon fiber efforts. Andrew Ritchie-inspired folders won't be hard to find at the Taipei International Cycle Show in two weeks, and even easier to run across in the halls of the 29th China International Bicycle Fair in Shanghai in May.

Then there is of course the hydroformed aluminium Dahon Curl, sold worldwide. Bromptons filed for an injunction in EU court when the Curl was first shown @ Eurobike in 2017. Three weeks later at the first hearing, the suit was dismissed and Bromptons was ordered to pay Dahons' legal fees.

hondated wrote:Thank you for all of your replies as they made for interesting reading. I guess its a case of if you want quality you have to pay for it.

As RAH said, "Anything free is worth what you paid for it"
followed by "How much is it without the free stuff?"

Sid Aluminium wrote:Then there is of course the hydroformed aluminium Dahon Curl, sold worldwide. Bromptons filed for an injunction in EU court when the Curl was first shown @ Eurobike in 2017. Three weeks later at the first hearing, the suit was dismissed and Bromptons was ordered to pay Dahons' legal fees.

I'd not come across this, and did a quick Google. One of the first things turned up was https://www.bikefolded.com/dahon-curl-i8-folding-bike-review-brompton-killer/ which suggests that, at least for the time being, the polish from a long time on the market means Bromptons won't be killed off quite yet!

Pete.

I had a Brompton for about five years, and very good it was too, spares were readily available and when I came to sell it it went for a price not too far from what I paid for it. In my opinion these are another two very good reasons to invest in a Brompton.