East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

mercalia
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby mercalia » 17 May 2018, 1:02pm

The utility cyclist wrote:I was on a 'Virgin' HST on the East Coast in April, for bikes they are pants, 3 spaces and you have to lift them up sans bags and hang them by your front wheel.
the whole debacle shows the government up for what they are, a bunch of shysters just like the Carillion execs. :twisted:



I have had that experience when I went to York last year - I wasnt strong enough to do it lucky a fellow cyclist did it for me

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The utility cyclist
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby The utility cyclist » 17 May 2018, 4:04pm

See if they had a spring loaded 'hook' that ratcheted upward to bring the back wheel into the lower tyre slot it would be so much easier as you'd only need to get the front wheel up to say waist height and then push the bike up onto it's back wheel for it to click into place. It'd be a one size fit all given it adjusts to any size wheelbase.
As for the current set up in the other trains whilst there are 6 spots you still end up having to take the bags off and the retaining straps are rubbish, you're lucky if there is a buckle at all and the stands could do with some cushioning as well.
To me a floor bolted stanchion with adjustable arm with clamp for top tube and floor slot would work better as opposed to the massive elongated 'sheffield' style stands, it would also mean more bikes could fit n the same space. A total redesign is needed tbh but it'll never happen.

reohn2
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby reohn2 » 17 May 2018, 5:40pm

atoz wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
atoz wrote:Grayling would do better by scrapping himself. Everything this man touches turns to *****

Including car door handles :?


I''ll take my chance with the legendary BR sandwich if it means getting a seat, affordable ticket prices- and oh yes, no problems with bikes on trains. All aboard with Jez on the nationalised railway...back to the future..

That's all far too left-wing for comfort :wink:


No it isn't. It could take us back to a time when we had "Cyclists' Specials"- nothing left wing about that famous BR film you can see on Youtube. I mean, is it really likely that the famously reactionary Harry England, Cycling Weekly's then editor who features in the film, would be manning the barricades and issuing in a workers commune? Somehow I doubt it.

Oddly enough, I don't remember too many problems getting my bike on a train in the premiership of Maggie Thatcher, although I detested her and her policies. She was wise enough not to go near privatising BR- unlike her successor. And unlike Tony and his cronies, do did nothing to reverse it.

I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet on this one :wink:

The question is- what are Cycling UK going to do? They need to be a lot more feisty about campaigning for bikes on trains. The great and the good who like to think they run Cycling UK can start earning their money. I've looked on the website and what I can see at the moment is this document at https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/taking-cycles-on-trains ;which states "We are currently revising and updating our views on cycle-rail and these will be published in due course"- and then quotes a document from 2004. Big deal. I have news- it's the year 2018.

A helpful hint- less obsession on logos and navel gazing, and more active campaigning. A bit more momentum, if you please..

I parted company with CTC/ CUK when it became a "charity" :roll: and was bought out by the Establishment,now due to recent changes by the current bunch of millionaires who laughingly call themselves a government,CUK daren't make any loud noises or put a foot(or should that be wheel?) wrong for fear of a loss of "charity" status and the top brass losing their salaries.
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atoz
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby atoz » 18 May 2018, 3:18pm

reohn2 wrote:
atoz wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Including car door handles :?



That's all far too left-wing for comfort :wink:


No it isn't. It could take us back to a time when we had "Cyclists' Specials"- nothing left wing about that famous BR film you can see on Youtube. I mean, is it really likely that the famously reactionary Harry England, Cycling Weekly's then editor who features in the film, would be manning the barricades and issuing in a workers commune? Somehow I doubt it.

Oddly enough, I don't remember too many problems getting my bike on a train in the premiership of Maggie Thatcher, although I detested her and her policies. She was wise enough not to go near privatising BR- unlike her successor. And unlike Tony and his cronies, do did nothing to reverse it.

I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet on this one :wink:

The question is- what are Cycling UK going to do? They need to be a lot more feisty about campaigning for bikes on trains. The great and the good who like to think they run Cycling UK can start earning their money. I've looked on the website and what I can see at the moment is this document at https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/taking-cycles-on-trains ;which states "We are currently revising and updating our views on cycle-rail and these will be published in due course"- and then quotes a document from 2004. Big deal. I have news- it's the year 2018.

A helpful hint- less obsession on logos and navel gazing, and more active campaigning. A bit more momentum, if you please..

I parted company with CTC/ CUK when it became a "charity" :roll: and was bought out by the Establishment,now due to recent changes by the current bunch of millionaires who laughingly call themselves a government,CUK daren't make any loud noises or put a foot(or should that be wheel?) wrong for fear of a loss of "charity" status and the top brass losing their salaries.


Yes. I was oppposed to the move to charitable status, for precisely those sort of reasons. Mind you, other charities don't seem to have a problem being critical. I suspect there's a cultural mindset involved.

If Cycling UK don't or won't campaign on this, maybe would be good to join forces with others on these issues..

brynpoeth
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby brynpoeth » 19 May 2018, 7:21am

Ian Jack has a good article about this in the Grauniad today
The minister forgot the "&"
Mallard will be restored to get the trains up to 126 mph, and Tornado (Gordon the Green Engine) of course
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

pete75
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby pete75 » 19 May 2018, 4:55pm

The utility cyclist wrote:I was on a 'Virgin' HST on the East Coast in April, for bikes they are pants, 3 spaces and you have to lift them up sans bags and hang them by your front wheel.
the whole debacle shows the government up for what they are, a bunch of shysters just like the Carillion execs. :twisted:

Nothing wrong with storing a bike like that for a train journey. The "cyclists special" from the good old days has been mentioned in this thread. That had a special cycle transport carriage and, guess what, they were hung from hooks by the front wheel.
Have travelled many times on the East Coast using that system and usually hung bike up with front and rear panniers on. Doesn't do the machine any harm

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby The utility cyclist » 20 May 2018, 4:43pm

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:I was on a 'Virgin' HST on the East Coast in April, for bikes they are pants, 3 spaces and you have to lift them up sans bags and hang them by your front wheel.
the whole debacle shows the government up for what they are, a bunch of shysters just like the Carillion execs. :twisted:

Nothing wrong with storing a bike like that for a train journey. The "cyclists special" from the good old days has been mentioned in this thread. That had a special cycle transport carriage and, guess what, they were hung from hooks by the front wheel.
Have travelled many times on the East Coast using that system and usually hung bike up with front and rear panniers on. Doesn't do the machine any harm

Read again, you have to take the bags off, well I certainly have to (I can physically lift the 12kg bike + 15kg load no problem) and for some as mentioned in the comments they aren't physically capable of lifting the bike up on to the hook, the staff certainly won't do it. far easier to roll the bike in on two wheels and secure it to something whilst it's standing in it's normal position. AND importantly there is only three spaces, hence why along with the other downsides it's pants compared to even the not fantastic 6 stands on the majority of the trains.

pete75
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby pete75 » 20 May 2018, 7:36pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:I was on a 'Virgin' HST on the East Coast in April, for bikes they are pants, 3 spaces and you have to lift them up sans bags and hang them by your front wheel.
the whole debacle shows the government up for what they are, a bunch of shysters just like the Carillion execs. :twisted:

Nothing wrong with storing a bike like that for a train journey. The "cyclists special" from the good old days has been mentioned in this thread. That had a special cycle transport carriage and, guess what, they were hung from hooks by the front wheel.
Have travelled many times on the East Coast using that system and usually hung bike up with front and rear panniers on. Doesn't do the machine any harm

Read again, you have to take the bags off, well I certainly have to (I can physically lift the 12kg bike + 15kg load no problem) and for some as mentioned in the comments they aren't physically capable of lifting the bike up on to the hook, the staff certainly won't do it. far easier to roll the bike in on two wheels and secure it to something whilst it's standing in it's normal position. AND importantly there is only three spaces, hence why along with the other downsides it's pants compared to even the not fantastic 6 stands on the majority of the trains.


Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby Cugel » 21 May 2018, 8:56am

brynpoeth wrote:Ian Jack has a good article about this in the Grauniad today
The minister forgot the "&"
Mallard will be restored to get the trains up to 126 mph, and Tornado (Gordon the Green Engine) of course


Personally I favour Seth Brundle pods albeit those with a fly screen. All this chugging along railway lines decorated with litter and the nastiest back ends of factories seems so C19th.

On the other hand, we are cyclists and should embrace the notion that it's the journey rather than the arrival that matters. This seems a fine idea when it's a bike doing the transporting but alas, on a modern train the opposite applies. If you're not being made sick by the tilting mechanism, you're retching because of the stink wafting from the bog'oles. And all whilst having to listen to some fool shout meaningless drivel into his prattlebox.....

Yes, bring back Seth .... but not the version full of musca domestica.

Cugel

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby The utility cyclist » 21 May 2018, 4:20pm

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:Nothing wrong with storing a bike like that for a train journey. The "cyclists special" from the good old days has been mentioned in this thread. That had a special cycle transport carriage and, guess what, they were hung from hooks by the front wheel.
Have travelled many times on the East Coast using that system and usually hung bike up with front and rear panniers on. Doesn't do the machine any harm

Read again, you have to take the bags off, well I certainly have to (I can physically lift the 12kg bike + 15kg load no problem) and for some as mentioned in the comments they aren't physically capable of lifting the bike up on to the hook, the staff certainly won't do it. far easier to roll the bike in on two wheels and secure it to something whilst it's standing in it's normal position. AND importantly there is only three spaces, hence why along with the other downsides it's pants compared to even the not fantastic 6 stands on the majority of the trains.


Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby mjr » 21 May 2018, 5:49pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

The last time I saw such hooks/racks was on a Harwich boat train back when Sprinters were used (pre 2003... maybe as long ago as 1998). The racks were too close together to leave panniers on if anyone wanted to use the neighbouring ones.
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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby pete75 » 21 May 2018, 7:34pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Read again, you have to take the bags off, well I certainly have to (I can physically lift the 12kg bike + 15kg load no problem) and for some as mentioned in the comments they aren't physically capable of lifting the bike up on to the hook, the staff certainly won't do it. far easier to roll the bike in on two wheels and secure it to something whilst it's standing in it's normal position. AND importantly there is only three spaces, hence why along with the other downsides it's pants compared to even the not fantastic 6 stands on the majority of the trains.


Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

So you don't have to you choose to. There is a difference. The bottom fitting on a pannier is called anti sway for a reason.

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby pete75 » 21 May 2018, 7:41pm

mjr wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

The last time I saw such hooks/racks was on a Harwich boat train back when Sprinters were used (pre 2003... maybe as long ago as 1998). The racks were too close together to leave panniers on if anyone wanted to use the neighbouring ones.


The Inter City 125 diesels have them.

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby The utility cyclist » 23 May 2018, 4:22pm

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Why do you have to take the bags off if you can physically lift it with them on. As I said I've travelled with bikes many time son these trains without any problems at all.

Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

So you don't have to you choose to. There is a difference. The bottom fitting on a pannier is called anti sway for a reason.

Because it's more practical all round to remove them given the poor option to hang bike and as mjr says not enough space next to others. It also takes more time and as I pointed out others cannot manage to lift their bike. Do you actually bother to read what's being said? :?
You have your way, i'm saying the hook option is rubbish and gave valid reasons why, accept it and stop making a big deal out of it!

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Re: East Coast rail franchise 'to be scrapped' by transport secretary

Postby pete75 » 23 May 2018, 4:36pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Because I do, they hang away from the rack as I don't affix them to the rack at the base, (how many people actually do that anyways) and I usually have stuff in there like a laptop and/or bottle of plonk to take up with me to my folks that I don't want damaged. ATEOTD the hanging the bike up choice is the poorer by far, I'm not that keen hanging my bike solely by the wheel in any case.

So you don't have to you choose to. There is a difference. The bottom fitting on a pannier is called anti sway for a reason.

Because it's more practical all round to remove them given the poor option to hang bike and as mjr says not enough space next to others. It also takes more time and as I pointed out others cannot manage to lift their bike. Do you actually bother to read what's being said? :?
You have your way, i'm saying the hook option is rubbish and gave valid reasons why, accept it and stop making a big deal out of it!


I have read what you've said and my point is that you do not have to remove panniers - as you say you choose to remove them. It take sno more time to put a bike on with panniers than without. Obviously removing the panniers and putting the bike on will take longer than that. Perhaps you should read what I've written - that I've used that system many times without the problems you describe. Either I'm doing it wrong or you are. MJR was referring to the system on SPrinter trains not mainline trains.
Finally you say I should accept what you say ie that thehook option is rubbish. WHy should I when I have found it satisfactory?