Desperately sad case.....

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dobbo800
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Sep 2016, 12:23pm

Desperately sad case.....

Postby dobbo800 » 17 May 2018, 4:06pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-co ... e-44158417

Two children and now their dad.

The driver has just been sent down for 9 years. He had 30 previous driving convictions, including no licence. No doubt he'll be straight back onto the roads as soon as he gets out......he's a serial offender. What to do with people like him?

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The utility cyclist
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Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby The utility cyclist » 17 May 2018, 5:08pm

Eliminating from this mortal plane would be the best solution :twisted: Morally correct and cost effective too.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby reohn2 » 17 May 2018, 6:24pm

As per thread title a very sad case indeed.
As for both these scum my first reaction is,with 30 previous convictions for driving without a licence and or insurance how is it his crimes don't attract the maximum sentence?
And please don't post that he would be shown leniency for pleading guilty as in this case it should have a attracted a further 10 years on top of the maximum penalty he didn't get.
The passenger in the car is no better than him as she assaulted police and tried to leave the scene with two young children lying dying in the road.
For her crimes she gets six months in prison which is a disgrace and should be serving 10years minimum.

The law in this country stinks to high heaven there's no more to be said,disgusting :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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ianrobo
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Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby ianrobo » 17 May 2018, 7:22pm

it needs new laws, do this when you are DD should be a life driving ban and life in prison, no questions or other options....

so where is the DM outrage at this, the campaign for prison sentences, the petitions ?

Nah nothing, drivers have to be protected as much as possible

eileithyia
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Location: Horwich Which is Lancs :-)

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby eileithyia » 18 May 2018, 9:27am

It's dreadfully tragic, but also demonstrates how crime impacts on and affects other members of the family, cost both in trauma and long term on going medical care / counselling etc. Scum like these should have the key thrown away, sadly we pay to 'keep' them at her majesties' prison.

Having said that, as cyclists we know only too well the poor sentencing handed out.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

pwa
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Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby pwa » 18 May 2018, 9:39am

dobbo800 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-44158417

Two children and now their dad.

The driver has just been sent down for 9 years. He had 30 previous driving convictions, including no licence. No doubt he'll be straight back onto the roads as soon as he gets out......he's a serial offender. What to do with people like him?

I believe that with dangerous offenders (not just drivers) the default position should be Safety First, and release should only come if there is a strong reason to believe that danger to the public no longer exists. Our right to life takes priority over the offender's right to freedom.

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby thirdcrank » 18 May 2018, 10:03am

pwa wrote: ... I believe that with dangerous offenders (not just drivers) the default position should be Safety First, and release should only come if there is a strong reason to believe that danger to the public no longer exists. Our right to life takes priority over the offender's right to freedom.


We've been there quite recently and it's been decided it didn't work. The problem seems to have been that once somebody is inside under that system, it's virtually impossible to demonstrate that they present no further danger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprisonm ... protection

reohn2
Posts: 30984
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 10:15am

pwa wrote:
dobbo800 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-44158417

Two children and now their dad.

The driver has just been sent down for 9 years. He had 30 previous driving convictions, including no licence. No doubt he'll be straight back onto the roads as soon as he gets out......he's a serial offender. What to do with people like him?

I believe that with dangerous offenders (not just drivers) the default position should be Safety First, and release should only come if there is a strong reason to believe that danger to the public no longer exists. Our right to life takes priority over the offender's right to freedom.

And yet we had a serial rapist(Warbouys)proposing to be released after serving only 8years in prison.A man who is suspected of raping 100 women or more.
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reohn2
Posts: 30984
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 10:16am

eileithyia wrote:It's dreadfully tragic, but also demonstrates how crime impacts on and affects other members of the family, cost both in trauma and long term on going medical care / counselling etc. ..........

Tell me about it,I'm very familiar with such.
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pwa
Posts: 7788
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby pwa » 18 May 2018, 10:18am

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:
dobbo800 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-44158417

Two children and now their dad.

The driver has just been sent down for 9 years. He had 30 previous driving convictions, including no licence. No doubt he'll be straight back onto the roads as soon as he gets out......he's a serial offender. What to do with people like him?

I believe that with dangerous offenders (not just drivers) the default position should be Safety First, and release should only come if there is a strong reason to believe that danger to the public no longer exists. Our right to life takes priority over the offender's right to freedom.

And yet we had a serial rapist(Warbouys)proposing to be released after serving only 8years in prison.A man who is suspected of raping 100 women or more.

The perfect example. When will he be safe to be on the streets with members of your family, or my family? When he is too infirm to do any harm. Not before.

reohn2
Posts: 30984
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 10:34am

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I believe that with dangerous offenders (not just drivers) the default position should be Safety First, and release should only come if there is a strong reason to believe that danger to the public no longer exists. Our right to life takes priority over the offender's right to freedom.

And yet we had a serial rapist(Warbouys)proposing to be released after serving only 8years in prison.A man who is suspected of raping 100 women or more.

The perfect example. When will he be safe to be on the streets with members of your family, or my family? When he is too infirm to do any harm. Not before.

Here's another name that may be familiar Venables.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby thirdcrank » 18 May 2018, 10:43am

FWIW, I don't think Warboys is a good example of anything other than the effects of shifting the goalposts.

reohn2
Posts: 30984
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby reohn2 » 18 May 2018, 10:44am

thirdcrank wrote:FWIW, I don't think Warboys is a good example of anything other than the effects of shifting the goalposts.

Could you explain?
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thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby thirdcrank » 18 May 2018, 11:36am

In brief:

A system of detention for public protection was introduced whereby in addition to any punitive element of the sentence, a defendant could be detained virtually indefinitely. (for details of the sentencing régime itself see my link.)

Warboys was dealt with and convicted on several charges, sufficient at that time in the well-known phrase or saying for the key to be thrown away.

He was suspected of a lot of other similar offences for which at that time there was no public interest in bringing more charges. eg It's worth remembering in this context that a lot of victims of rape don't relish giving evidence and that's all additional to the cost of having a series of jury trials.

It was decided that this type of sentence should be abolished, so the outstanding question was what to do with those inside and subject to it. One example that comes to mind is IIRC, somebody sentenced for something relatively minor who was still in prison after ten years and counting.

I get the impression that it was decided that the general thrust would be to let them all go ASAP. To coin a phrase, the lost key had been found. Remember also that no matter how evil we "know" anybody to be, they have individual rights, one of which is to have their case looked at individually.

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Desperately sad case.....

Postby pwa » 18 May 2018, 11:53am

thirdcrank wrote:In brief:

A system of detention for public protection was introduced whereby in addition to any punitive element of the sentence, a defendant could be detained virtually indefinitely. (for details of the sentencing régime itself see my link.)

Warboys was dealt with and convicted on several charges, sufficient at that time in the well-known phrase or saying for the key to be thrown away.

He was suspected of a lot of other similar offences for which at that time there was no public interest in bringing more charges. eg It's worth remembering in this context that a lot of victims of rape don't relish giving evidence and that's all additional to the cost of having a series of jury trials.

It was decided that this type of sentence should be abolished, so the outstanding question was what to do with those inside and subject to it. One example that comes to mind is IIRC, somebody sentenced for something relatively minor who was still in prison after ten years and counting.

I get the impression that it was decided that the general thrust would be to let them all go ASAP. To coin a phrase, the lost key had been found. Remember also that no matter how evil we "know" anybody to be, they have individual rights, one of which is to have their case looked at individually.


The relevant philosophical question here is how we balance the rights of the detained person against the right of the public to be safe. I'm only talking about very serious offences such as rape, extreme violence, etc. I believe we have to put the safety of the public first. I expect most people would agree with that. If experts cannot say that Warboys is as safe as most people to be out, he should not be out. He has forfeited that right. We know he was a danger before his arrest and conviction, so we need good reason to think he has changed for the better. Or he stays in.