Can you ride "no hands"?
I can, but not on my Mercian.
When I was riding my Vitus last year, no hands was easy.
When I ride Barbarella, no hands is easy too.
Barbarella on the rollers is easy, but my Mercian is difficult, and I still haven't mastered it.
Vitus is a 74deg parallel frame, and Barbarella a 72? degree. My Mercian is a 73deg parallel.
What's going on?
No Hands!
The angle is only half the story, the rest is the fork rake or offset. Combine them with wheel size and we can calculate the trail. Even that is not the whole story, tyre properties and the amount of weight on the front wheel also play a part, but trail is most of it.
What is trail? The further that the front wheel/road contact trails behind the steering axis, the easier it is to ride no hands. But too much trail and the bike becomes sluggish to steer with hands! Most bike designs handle nicely with between 6 and 7 cm of trail, or about 5cm for tandems due to the greater front weight and resulting tyre drag. (It's the cross-product of trail and drag that keeps the front wheel pointing forward.)
Steepening the angle and increasing the rake both reduce trail. To keep trail the same you have to increase one when you reduce the other.
Sometimes frame designers confuse cause and effect, putting a touring-style fork on a steeper frame in the expectation of a comfy racer, but getting a shimmy-prone bike that cannot be ridden no hands. I'm not saying this is what Mick has, but I've seen a few like it.
What is trail? The further that the front wheel/road contact trails behind the steering axis, the easier it is to ride no hands. But too much trail and the bike becomes sluggish to steer with hands! Most bike designs handle nicely with between 6 and 7 cm of trail, or about 5cm for tandems due to the greater front weight and resulting tyre drag. (It's the cross-product of trail and drag that keeps the front wheel pointing forward.)
Steepening the angle and increasing the rake both reduce trail. To keep trail the same you have to increase one when you reduce the other.
Sometimes frame designers confuse cause and effect, putting a touring-style fork on a steeper frame in the expectation of a comfy racer, but getting a shimmy-prone bike that cannot be ridden no hands. I'm not saying this is what Mick has, but I've seen a few like it.
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
Thanks CJ. Very interesting.
Just done a bit of measuring, and as far as I can tell (using string and a ruler) I have somewhere about 5cm of Trail. So that explains it.
Shimmy prone? No. Never felt it. Not once. I have ridden at all speeds between zero and 50 odd mph!
I have a "comfy racer".
Just done a bit of measuring, and as far as I can tell (using string and a ruler) I have somewhere about 5cm of Trail. So that explains it.
Shimmy prone? No. Never felt it. Not once. I have ridden at all speeds between zero and 50 odd mph!
I have a "comfy racer".
Mick F. Cornwall
That's not quite the whole story either, CJ:
When I was at college, I had an old Saxon Sprint racer which I went everywhere on. All was fine until some dozy woman cycled into my front wheel. From that point on, the wheel steadily lost spokes, and became less and less ridable hands off. By the time it had lost 5 or 6 it was seriously wobbly and I finally got round to bunging a few extras in
From this I conclude that wheel stiffness is a factor in hands off rideablility!
( I guess you learn.................)
When I was at college, I had an old Saxon Sprint racer which I went everywhere on. All was fine until some dozy woman cycled into my front wheel. From that point on, the wheel steadily lost spokes, and became less and less ridable hands off. By the time it had lost 5 or 6 it was seriously wobbly and I finally got round to bunging a few extras in
From this I conclude that wheel stiffness is a factor in hands off rideablility!
( I guess you learn.................)
Willpower wrote:I conclude that wheel stiffness is a factor in hands off rideablility!
Are you accusing me of having floppy wheels?
meic wrote:Hands off seems easier if you lean back. the racer has you leaning a long way forward and down.
Yes, that has a lot to do with it. If I angled my saddle backwards, I might stand a chance.
Mick F. Cornwall
Willpower wrote:That's not quite the whole story either, CJ:
It seldom is
When I was at college, I had an old Saxon Sprint racer which I went everywhere on. All was fine until some dozy woman cycled into my front wheel. From that point on, the wheel steadily lost spokes, and became less and less ridable hands off. By the time it had lost 5 or 6 it was seriously wobbly and I finally got round to bunging a few extras in
From this I conclude that wheel stiffness is a factor in hands off rideablility!
And anther thing that helps is circularity, and being in track with the rear wheel - both of which can be casualties in a collision.
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
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tombo_junior
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 8 Apr 2008, 2:11pm
No Hands
I tried doing no hands with a pitted headset not the the best of things to do.As I hit a kerb but managed to keep upright. Wont be trying that until I sort that Headset out.
DAMN
DAMN
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peanut
keep ya hands on the bars Mick or we'll be picking bits of your frame out of your vital parts 
I had a frame I could never ride no hands and as far as I know it was straight. If you walk your bike through a puddle in a straight line and check the trail the tyre trails should be superimposed if the frame and forks are reasonably true.
I had a frame I could never ride no hands and as far as I know it was straight. If you walk your bike through a puddle in a straight line and check the trail the tyre trails should be superimposed if the frame and forks are reasonably true.
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hubgearfreak
- Posts: 8212
- Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 4:14pm
I do, often, Hubbers.
I just thought I'd start this thread off to see if others have my 'problem'. My bike handling has been the same since I built it up in 1986, so it ain't the componentry or wheels.
I ain't complaining, I love my bike. I love it to bits.
My last bike, a Raleigh Clubman, was easily rideable 'no hands', but my Mercian never has been.
When I first rode it out, it felt twitchy and responsive, rather than laid back and relaxed. That's what I asked for. I was never measured for it, I used various formulae and my experience of what I wanted, then wrote letters to Mercian describing my wants and needs. Amongst other things, I specified close clearances but with just enough room for mudguards, and I asked for the rear bridge and front crown to be low enough to fit Campag Victory brakes.
They came back to me with a spec for the Vincitore, my preferred frame. The rest, as they say, is history!
I just thought I'd start this thread off to see if others have my 'problem'. My bike handling has been the same since I built it up in 1986, so it ain't the componentry or wheels.
I ain't complaining, I love my bike. I love it to bits.
My last bike, a Raleigh Clubman, was easily rideable 'no hands', but my Mercian never has been.
When I first rode it out, it felt twitchy and responsive, rather than laid back and relaxed. That's what I asked for. I was never measured for it, I used various formulae and my experience of what I wanted, then wrote letters to Mercian describing my wants and needs. Amongst other things, I specified close clearances but with just enough room for mudguards, and I asked for the rear bridge and front crown to be low enough to fit Campag Victory brakes.
They came back to me with a spec for the Vincitore, my preferred frame. The rest, as they say, is history!
Mick F. Cornwall
The Creator gave us two hands - if He hadn't thought they were necessary and beneficial, He wouldn't have. If it's only your Mercian that you can't ride "no hands" then this simply endorses the view that a Mercian is the most heavenly of bikes.
I think we've been here before, although not in so many words.
I can ride "no-hands" on all my current bikes, but I did once have a gas-pipe Carlton (about 1965) that I couldn't. Until I bought my first hand-built frame, I'd thought it was my lack of ability. In retrospect, I now believe that the frame was too long and I had my saddle located aft, and with a very short (very short indeed) stem, bringing me and all the weight too far back.
My Mercian is still in build - lovingly - so I can't comment, but when it's built...........
References have been made to wheels above, and the more I consider handling defects - sometimes in times past from experience - the more I think that wheels have more to do with it than we initially think.
It's still snowing here in Halifax as I write - I hope you've got your Mercian nice and cosily resting by a warm fire with a good cup of tea, Mick.
I think we've been here before, although not in so many words.
I can ride "no-hands" on all my current bikes, but I did once have a gas-pipe Carlton (about 1965) that I couldn't. Until I bought my first hand-built frame, I'd thought it was my lack of ability. In retrospect, I now believe that the frame was too long and I had my saddle located aft, and with a very short (very short indeed) stem, bringing me and all the weight too far back.
My Mercian is still in build - lovingly - so I can't comment, but when it's built...........
References have been made to wheels above, and the more I consider handling defects - sometimes in times past from experience - the more I think that wheels have more to do with it than we initially think.
It's still snowing here in Halifax as I write - I hope you've got your Mercian nice and cosily resting by a warm fire with a good cup of tea, Mick.