Please help me choose between those two bikes.

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
tomaz26
Posts: 5
Joined: 14 Jun 2018, 7:10am

Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby tomaz26 » 24 Jun 2018, 2:32pm

Hello. I found two bikes I like and both are currently heavily discounted. I am 38 and this will be my first road bike. I looked at CX and gravel which I think would be better, but they are expensive. So I will probably keep my Cube cross bike with front suspension, which I will use for harder climbs (with 46/36/26 tripple in front) and rough terrain and just buy regular road bike. But at the same time I still one this road bike to be able to take at least 32 mm tire, to make it more comfortable.. So to cut the story short, I located two 2017 heavily discounted bikes which both fit this profile. Both can be bought for 750 GBP which I think is a great price.

1 - Scott Speedster 10 disc 2017, hydraulic disc brakes, 105 group
2 - Merida Cyclo Cross 50 2017, also 105 group but mechanical disc brakes, but can fit even wider tire..

Both weight slighlty less than 10kg, which is not that light, but ok for disc bike I guess it is not that bad. I weight 67 kg so I can easier get to 65 kg and make the difference there :) :) :)

Also Scott Speedster is only available in size 54 (M), Merida comes in 54 and 56. I am 5.10 (177cm), but with long legs (my inseam is 34 inch or 86 cm) and short torso. So I guess 54 would be fine anyway.

This will be my first road bike so I know there are much better bikes for me, like Trek Domane etc, but they are also twice the price. I fear that if I do not like road bike with drop bars I will loose too much money. Those two bikes above are so discounted that I can sell them here for almost the same price for sure.

Which one would you buy and why? I have read about some problems with Merida CX 500 and some very good comments too and the same for Scott. Most reviews are not that good, but they are for the originally priced 1.400 GBP which for sure is way too much. But for 750 GBP...

thanks for help guys

Tomaz

User avatar
531colin
Posts: 12015
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby 531colin » 24 Jun 2018, 6:59pm

tomaz26 wrote:……..

This will be my first road bike...……….
Which one would you buy and why? ...........


If its your first road bike, I would probably recommend you get whichever one can get the handlebars higher, in your "size".
Can you link or paste up the geometry tables?
Don't pay too much attention to the "size" of the bike, because different manufacturers have different ways of "sizing" bikes. Its commonplace for a 54 (say) frame not to have any tube which measures 54cm.

I'm not too different in size to you, but I just hired a 56 Specialised. I picked it for the bar height, and it was fine...not too long, with the saddle all the way back. (Spec. "56" road bikes may have 530 or 501mm seat tubes)

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 14902
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby Vorpal » 24 Jun 2018, 7:02pm

Can you test ride them?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

gxaustin
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby gxaustin » 25 Jun 2018, 9:28am

I'm similarly proportioned to you and I would say that fit is everything. I'd get the bike which seems the best fit.
Because I'm too old and creaky to get down really low on a medium frame and a large frame is too long without a very short stem I find geometry is critical. I ride a wsg bike btw.

User avatar
531colin
Posts: 12015
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby 531colin » 27 Jun 2018, 5:38pm

gxaustin wrote:I'm similarly proportioned to you and I would say that fit is everything. I'd get the bike which seems the best fit.
Because I'm too old and creaky to get down really low on a medium frame and a large frame is too long without a very short stem I find geometry is critical. I ride a wsg bike btw.


There is usually 2cm difference in "size" between consecutive "sizes" of the same (road) bike, where "size" is some form of measurement of the height of the bike.
There is usually only 1cm difference in length or reach between consecutive "sizes", where "reach" is measured as the horizontal distance between the top of the head tube and a perpendicular dropped through the bottom bracket. Generally, you can easily lose 1cm in stem lenth, or handlebar shape.
"Women's specific geometry" is a good sales pitch, but if you study the geo. table, you will find that there is as much (or as little) difference in reach between "Mens" and "Womens" bikes of the same "size" as there is between consecutive sizes of either bike.

gxaustin
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby gxaustin » 29 Jun 2018, 12:07pm

There is usually 2cm difference in "size" between consecutive "sizes" of the same (road) bike, where "size" is some form of measurement of the height of the bike.
There is usually only 1cm difference in length or reach between consecutive "sizes", where "reach" is measured as the horizontal distance between the top of the head tube and a perpendicular dropped through the bottom bracket. Generally, you can easily lose 1cm in stem lenth, or handlebar shape.
"Women's specific geometry" is a good sales pitch, but if you study the geo. table, you will find that there is as much (or as little) difference in reach between "Mens" and "Womens" bikes of the same "size" as there is between consecutive sizes of either bike.


No doubt you are correct - I merely speak from experience, having been unable to try every bike out there.
My main point was get the best fit, if you are disproportionate.

BTW my WSG bike has a 200mm head tube and 540mm top tube (horizontal) and is a 59cm or 60cm size frame as best I can judge. My ally audax bike was very similar but 30mm longer and even with an 80mm stem I felt stretched. I tried a 56cm carbon frame but it was 560mm long and the head tube was only 175mm. I would have needed a riser stem or an uncut steerer.

User avatar
531colin
Posts: 12015
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby 531colin » 2 Jul 2018, 7:23pm

gxaustin wrote:……….
BTW my WSG bike has a 200mm head tube and 540mm top tube (horizontal) and is a 59cm or 60cm size frame as best I can judge........


Always looking for a learning opportunity.........Could you link the geometry table, or tell us the exact model and year of the bike, please?

gxaustin
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby gxaustin » 8 Jul 2018, 4:04pm

Always looking for a learning opportunity.........Could you link the geometry table, or tell us the exact model and year of the bike, please?


It's a Merckx Milano 72 size large. (I think that's the largest)

User avatar
531colin
Posts: 12015
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby 531colin » 13 Jul 2018, 9:25pm

gxaustin wrote:……...
It's a Merckx Milano 72 size large. (I think that's the largest)


best information I could find ...https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=2xEbS%2Fa6&id=0B1B2CC2A4C264B6392E353B88C1B4DD455A700D&thid=OIP.2xEbS_a6pBaY6jtMzdvehgHaFU&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmikesbikes.com%2Fimages%2Flibrary%2Ffeatures%2FGeoChart_Milano72.gif&exph=575&expw=800&q=merckx+milano+geometry&simid=608046957832634451&ajaxhist=0&selectedindex=6
I used to be over 5' 10" in my socks, now at 71 I struggle to make 5' 9" in shoes, so a few of us on this thread are about the same size!
I shall therefore compare the Milano with my Spa Elan, size 54....geo. here.... https://spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3552/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-%28105-triple%29
head tube + fork length Milano 206 + 365 = 571 ; Elan 175 + 395 = 570.....ie same bar height
top tube Milano 548 ; Elan 574 but Milano seat tube is a degree and a half steeper, so you can deduct 15mm from Elan's top tube, so Elan is roughly 10mm (one stem size) longer.
Front centre Milano 602 ; Elan 615 , so Elan has more room for toes, big tyres and mudguards.
standover…. Milano seat tube is 50cm, Elan is 54.....however, Elan's top tube is 50mm below the top of the seat tube, so if Milano's top tube is say 20mm below the top of the seat tube the standover at the back of the top tube is the same. At the front, Elan's top tube is (again) 50mm below the top of the head tube; if Milano's is a more usual 20mm, then Elan's top tube is lower at the front.
So, as ever, you pays your money and you takes your pick; the 2 bikes are in my view more similar than different, and I can't see much that would make one of them "female specific".
Elan has a full carbon fork, and the steerer is 300mm long, as is usual. A 200mm head tube, a stem and a couple of spacers uses up all that 300mm steerer, which is why the biggest (56) Elan has a 190mm head tube.
A 200mm head tube I think is unusual on a 50cm bike, but I can see why they do it.
Photo of me on a prototype Elan 54cm....https://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/36063469470/in/album-72157624571269648/

gxaustin
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby gxaustin » 14 Jul 2018, 10:40am

I used to be over 5' 10" in my socks, now at 71 I struggle to make 5' 9" in shoes, so a few of us on this thread are about the same size!
I shall therefore compare the Milano with my Spa Elan, size 54....geo. here.


The Elan looks great. I like Ti and in fact my Merckx replaced a Ti bike which had a cracked chainstay.
Notwithstanding your point about the steeper seat tube on the Merckx, the reach of the Elan will be significantly longer. Also my saddle height is 790mm from the BB so the amount I have to stretch out is important to me. Nevertheless I'm sure I could get comfy on the Elan with a shorter stem. I would have been tempted but I have a winter bike of a similar spec/size and anyway it's not possible to compare every bike on the market.
I'm not much bothered about what makes the Merckx woman specific - no doubt it makes sense within the Merckx range. As we both agree it's fit that counts - which was the point I made. This one fits me admirably.

User avatar
531colin
Posts: 12015
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby 531colin » 14 Jul 2018, 11:32am

gxaustin wrote:…………..Notwithstanding your point about the steeper seat tube on the Merckx, the reach of the Elan will be significantly longer. ..............

Well, it'll be roughly 10mm, or one stem size longer. If you can simply fit a shorter stem, I don't think that's "significant".
If the seat tube angle was unimportant, you could simply move the saddle forward to get a shorter reach; but this will throw your weight onto your hands.
gxaustin wrote:…...Also my saddle height is 790mm from the BB .......

Thats huge; you must have about 80mm drop from saddle to bars. BB axle to bum bone dent is about 710mm for me, bars and saddle roughly level.

gxaustin
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 12:07pm

Re: Please help me choose between those two bikes.

Postby gxaustin » 14 Jul 2018, 11:58am

Well, it'll be roughly 10mm, or one stem size longer. If you can simply fit a shorter stem, I don't think that's "significant".


Fair enough - but I'd have to get my Brooks saddle mounted a long way forward and on an inline seat post given the Elan's relaxed seat tube angle and the height of my saddle. I like inline seat posts for this reason.

Thats huge; you must have about 80mm drop from saddle to bars. BB axle to bum bone dent is about 710mm for me, bars and saddle roughly level.


Yes, its about 80mm but this is comfortable, even on longer rides. We cyclists include all sizes/proportions; this is why fit is so important.
My high saddle position makes a steeper seat post an advantage since at 5'11" I have a short body to go with my long legs and need to keep the bars within reach. When I checked the geometry it was similar to the Ti frame which cracked and that's why I bought it. It was at a good price new too.