Should electric bikes be allowed on Audax events?

[horizon]

I'm very attracted to Audax and only distance to events has put me off (well, and the distance on events!). I think the other people on the event give support and the event itself provides the discipline and challenge. If electrically assisted bikes also take part, it will be meaningless to me and I won't be bothering.

I really want to hear others' thoughts on this.

[Freddie]

Are they allowed to take part then or is that a forthcoming change?

[Cyril Haearn]

Could you add a poll so we can vote?
Diolch

[landsurfer]

A cycling event can only have bicycles .. Otherwise it's not a cycling event.
If we allow electric mopeds to take part then why not i/c powered ... And so on and so on .....

[Mick F]

I've only done one audax, and although it was enjoyable to do a ride with other like-minded folk, I don't care whether anyone is on an Ebike or not.

The way I saw it, there were all sorts of abilities catered for, and the more sporty types shot away and did the 100miles very quickly and no doubt they raced. I got a move on and did the ride as per the route, but I overtook the same people a couple of times. They were riding slower, and took some short cuts and one of the bikes was a tandem.

Does it matter?
No.
You get out of it what you want.

I could have been bored stiff and jacked it in, turning round and heading back to my digs. In actual fact, I wouldn't do another audax because I found it a bit inane, just doing a ride for the sake of it and not actually achieving anything or going anywhere.

Ebike?
Why not?
Does it really matter? It's just an organised event that you get out of it what you want to get out of it.
It's not a competition or a race, just a ride.

[PH]

It's not a competition or a race, just a ride.

It isn't a race, but it is a competition, with points, tables, awards and championships.
There are shorter rides, probably including the one you've done, that are not included in that competition so different rules apply, like the inclusion on e-bikes.
The question is hypothetical, no one is proposing that they're permitted and if they did it would go to the AGM for the membership to decide.
I'd vote against, not because I object to e-bikes in any way, but because it would fundamentally change the nature of Audax.

[NickWi]

Are they allowed to take part then or is that a forthcoming change?

They are already allowed to take part in events up to 200k, but you're not supposed to have you card 'verified'.

..................the event itself provides the discipline and challenge. If electrically assisted bikes also take part, it will be meaningless to me and I won't be bothering.

The challenge is still there for you just as it is for a disabled rider, a blind stoker or an e-bike rider. You chose your level of difficulty, what you consider a success and mark yourself by it. Audax are not races, there’s no 1st, 2nd or 3rd list published, the challenge is to navigate the route, answer the questions at controls and get around the course within the time limit. If an e-biker considers doing a 50k Audax in 4-hours a milestone on their path to cycling more/further and they do it, then absolutely great. They've set a goal and achieved it. Don’t run them down just because they can’t reach you high moral bar.

[NickWi]

........If we allow electric mopeds etc etc.........

There is a very large difference between an electric moped and a power assited biycyle. If you have simply just to turn a throttle or set a power level and the motor does it all for you then I absolutely agree, they shouldn't be allowed. Power assisted bikes (provided they fall in line with Gov legistlation) whereby you still have to pedal, you still have to use the gears and you still huff & puff up the hills are a different matter though.

[horizon]

Don’t run them down just because they can’t reach you high moral bar.

This was a brave topic to raise precisely because of the accusations that might follow.

I would say that you don't get just get out of an Audax what you put in: you get out what other people put in for you too and what you might put in for them - it's a shared activity (AIUI). The challenge isn't to beat other people (AIUI) but to beat the course and the hills and the distance and the weather etc. If you are not sharing that challenge then you might as well (and this is my point) do it on your own with cars whizzing along.

This isn't a moral point, a right or a wrong, it's just about how we as people rise to a challenge together and how we handle it mentally and physically. You could argue that some riders having electric motors puts a further psychological challenge your way but I'm not sure that's in the plan.

[random37]

Horizon, don't take this the wrong way. But it strikes me that on this issue, you are too worried what other people do!

It's YOU riding the Audax (or not). It's none of your business what other riders do or don't do. It's not a race. Their choice to ride electric bikes does not impact on you at all. And there is nothing to stop you organising your own rides.

Choosing not to ride because you don't like the choices of other participants looks a bit churlish from here.

Or am I missing something?

[Freddie]

The challenge is still there for you just as it is for a disabled rider, a blind stoker or an e-bike rider.

Right, but in other sports where a person has, how shall we say, impediments such that they cannot compete on an even level, then a different league or event is set up to accommodate. The Olympics and the Paralympics, for example. If people cannot ride unassisted, then perhaps a better situation for all involved is to create a different event for those with powered cycles.

I don't think horizon is running anyone down, just raising a valid point. If you can't get your card verified, then have you actually ridden an audax, or have you just followed the course on which it was run?

I don't see why a separate event couldn't accommodate those that wish to do such things, although I imagine the turnout would be relatively small, perhaps this is why there is a move to integrate these things. I can understand the qualms tbh, if you are finishing a 200km audax feeling cream crackered and somebody seemingly breezes past on a powered bicycle, well that is going to be a bit annoying, isn't it.

[661-Pete]

I see no reason why there should not be a special category of Audax labelled "electric". Either as an entirely separate event or as a subsection of an existing Audax. After all, there are such things as motor vehicle rallies.

Perhaps not a sportive though. These are rather more demanding tests of stamina.

I don't know what the range of a battery-assist bike would be. Probably shorter than a typical Audax (presumably - unlike an electric car - if you run out of juice you just have to start pedalling!)

What I do know is, whilst perhaps in my younger days I might have dared to tackle an Audax (or even a sportive), such things are now wildly beyond my ability. Perhaps with a battery......?

[PH]

Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing that it is a competition, a sport.
You don't have to regard your participation as such, but others that do want it to be a fair one.
The original proposal to permit e-bikes on Populaires allowed for validation, the membership voted against.

I don't really understand the appeal, the challenge is the distance, success or failure (And I've had a few of each) is dependent on lots of different factors. If you need an e-bike to get round a 300 km ride, why not ride a 200 without the assistance instead?

[Mick F]

It's not a competition or a race, just a ride.

It isn't a race, but it is a competition, with points, tables, awards and championships.

Only for taking part.
The more audaxes you do, the more kudos you get.
Nothing to do with speed or racing. Just do the ride in under the bogey time to get your stamps on your card.

Nothing to stop you taking short cuts either so long as you get to the control points. You're only cheating yourself as it's not a race or competition.

It's a personal achievement. You know what you've done be it on a bike with 30 gears, or a SS or a fixed, or even an ebike. It doesn't matter.

[PH]

It's not a competition or a race, just a ride.

It isn't a race, but it is a competition, with points, tables, awards and championships.

Only for taking part.
The more audaxes you do, the more kudos you get.
Nothing to do with speed or racing. Just do the ride in under the bogey time to get your stamps on your card.

Nothing to stop you taking short cuts either so long as you get to the control points. You're only cheating yourself as it's not a race or competition.

It's a personal achievement. You know what you've done be it on a bike with 30 gears, or a SS or a fixed, or even an ebike. It doesn't matter.

And one ride makes you an expert, there's more to competition than speed
There's several inaccuracies in that post. I can't be bothered to correct them, you wouldn't accept them.