Bloke blows hundreds of dollars servicing his expensive bike

[thelawnet]

Quite an interesting video here I thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9eCLYxF3z8

Bike is some variant of this https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/ge ... view-r6538 (~£3000)

* 'Change your chain at 0.5%' (because 11-speed, so more expensive chain to be changed more frequently)
* Tubeless tape had failed (leaking) requiring bloke on £50/hour to re-do tape
* Lack of grease, generally
* All the 'sealed bearings' in the frame pivots perished
* Freehub body cracked (made of cheese, or possibly aluminium)
* Freehub 'sealed bearings' perished
* Existing freehub was clearly labelled 'XD' (SRAM standard for 10-tooth), but they didn't have one in shop so the other chap came over with an HG freehub instead and said 'this is what you want'. So bye-bye 10t cassette
* Front & rear suspension presumably both needing service as well (dual suspension means twice as much service as hardtail)
* Chap who made the video apparently spent 4 years working for 'pink bike' (online MTB magazine thing) but doesn't know how to check a chain for wear?

Bike is I think less than a year old, and after costing a fortune to start with continues to generate ludicrous bills (e.g., the chain wear not checked, so the £110 cassette also worn out, suspension service, brake service (alluded to), etc.)

Apparently costs were C$200 for labour, and C$250 for parts. Without brakes or suspension.

[Brucey]

that was a relatively cheap cassette. There are cassettes out there that are at least twice as expensive as that....

cheers

[foxyrider]

that was a relatively cheap cassette. There are cassettes out there that are at least twice as expensive as that....

cheers

My Campag SR for example

[thelawnet]

that was a relatively cheap cassette. There are cassettes out there that are at least twice as expensive as that....

Relative indeed.

A 11-42 HG500 is £30.

The problem is that some of these improvements (e.g., 10-42 rather than 11-42) come at ludicrously disproportionate cost.

I don't think the people what 'review' this stuff are really terribly interested in coming to any sort of common-sense conclusions. My friend has one of these ridiculous dinner plate SRAM cassettes (not sure which one), all very bling, but the problem is that a couple of teeth snapped off (presumably another function of the materials/manufacturing chosen for weight above all other concerns), and he didn't replace it because of the ludicrous cost.

Wear items should be priced so that they are not too painful to replace.

I realise that car manufacturers also manage to flog very expensive brakes & tyres and such like but they have a more convincing argument for their wares in that 'you might die in a high-speed crash' if you don't maintain your vehicle.

[kylecycler]

A fool and his money...

Weirdly complimentary comments under the video, especially for YouTube - as if the bloke is some kind of folk hero for wrecking his expensive bike and then having to spend a small fortune to get it fixed - one comment in particular made me laugh out loud: "This is why the the local bike shop will never go away..." Yeah, well...

I've found that people just don't seem to understand that bikes, especially full suspension mountain bikes, I suppose, although I've never run one, are high-maintenance and need frequent servicing, otherwise they cost a fortune to repair, or even just need replaced.

To be fair I was clueless when I went back to cycling about ten years ago - I wrecked my first bike even worse than that, now that I think about it - but I've learned an awful lot since, not least from this forum - it's not like you can't educate yourself and be responsible. Maybe it's just a different mindset - the more money you earn the more you can afford to waste. Anybody think he went to public school? Just asking.

[thelawnet]

Anybody think he went to public school? Just asking.

I tried googling 'Paul Pinkbike', and came up first with a different bloke at Pinkbike, who used the immortal line 'my family's auction house'. But it turned out not to be him. This particular Paul apparently went to King Edward's School. Not sure which one, but my money's on Bath. Yes, it is a public school.

It must help having a trust fund/owning an auction house, if you want to do this sort of thing.

[kylecycler]

Anybody think he went to public school? Just asking.

I tried googling 'Paul Pinkbike', and came up first with a different bloke at Pinkbike, who used the immortal line 'my family's auction house'. But it turned out not to be him. This particular Paul apparently went to King Edward's School. Not sure which one, but my money's on Bath. Yes, it is a public school.

It must help having a trust fund/owning an auction house, if you want to do this sort of thing.

I was just kidding - no offence to anyone who went to public school. Nearly got put in one myself - passed the entrance exam but failed the interview. Just wasn't cut out to be a toff, evidently. Mind you, they're all lefties on here so I don't suppose anyone cares.

[francovendee]

This just makes me more determined than ever to stick with a simple bike that I can service myself at reasonable cost.

[Airsporter1st]

I would guess that for most people there would come a point where it becomes a matter of the value of their time. As an example; if you had won, say, £120 million on the lottery, would you still want to wait for two weeks to get your car in for service, another week for essential parts to be delivered and a couple more days for fitting - or would you just buy a new car to take that luggage-less road trip to Switzerland that you'd always promised yourself? etc. etc.

[amediasatex]

It’s the cost of riding that type of bike for that type of riding. High performance suspended MTBs need maintenance to keep them working well.

Apparently costs were C$200 for labour, and C$250 for parts. Without brakes or suspension

I've had bills nearly that big (discounting labour as I do it myself) after a single race, let alone a year of use. Suspension needs servicing annually, often more regularly if you do a lot of miles in filth and can easily be £100 a shock just for a basic service, (ie: not repair) if you pay someone else to do it.

Race cars are expensive to look after too which is why we don’t use them for nipping to the shops, it' s all about context, it's also why I don't use my racing bikes for utility riding.

There is perhaps an issue with many people being sold/marketed bikes that are inappropriate for their actual use rather than the kind of riding they really do but that's a bit of a different tangent to the discussion.

If he using the bike as intended in the terrain it’s designed for then then what’s the issue?
If he’s just popping to the shops on it or neglecting it then that’s a different matter, but you have to look at these things in context, have you ever taken a race worthy Porsche* in for a service after a season? Costs a fortune compared to a fiesta...

* or any other marque for that matter

[thelawnet]

It’s the cost of riding that type of bike for that type of riding. High performance suspended MTBs need maintenance to keep them working well.

Apparently costs were C$200 for labour, and C$250 for parts. Without brakes or suspension

I've had bills nearly that big (discounting labour as I do it myself) after a single race, let alone a year of use. Suspension needs servicing annually, often more regularly if you do a lot of miles in filth and can easily be £100 a shock just for a basic service, (ie: not repair) if you pay someone else to do it.

Race cars are expensive to look after too which is why we don’t use them for nipping to the shops, it' s all about context, it's also why I don't use my racing bikes for utility riding.

There is perhaps an issue with many people being sold/marketed bikes that are inappropriate for their actual use rather than the kind of riding they really do but that's a bit of a different tangent to the discussion.

If he using the bike as intended in the terrain it’s designed for then then what’s the issue?
If he’s just popping to the shops on it or neglecting it then that’s a different matter, but you have to look at these things in context, have you ever taken a race worthy Porsche* in for a service after a season? Costs a fortune compared to a fiesta...

I don't think comparisons with Porsches are very apt. A Porsche is much faster than a 1l Fiesta, but you can buy all the bicycle you want, and still lose to someone on a steed costing 1/10 as much.

Cars are also sufficiently more complicated and distinct in form from one another compared to bicycles.

Of course the manufacturers are trying to give the impression that their bikes are NOT commodities, but a small bike manufacturer like the one used here clearly hasn't spent millions on R&D like a car manufacturer would, so this is not so much the case.

Obviously if you have a full suspension bike then you will need to service the shocks (I believe that this is recommended 100-hourly?), and this is going to make things more expensive to run than a rigid bike. And that's fair enough, for some riding you need suspension. But virtually none of the stuff in the video was delivering clear benefits (and the shocks weren't touched), e.g., the $$$ freehub that apparently is prone to failure, compared to a more sturdy and far cheaper one, the 1x10-42 drivetrain that was apparently junked because of the not-in-stock 10t freehub body, combined with expensive cassette, the frame pivot bearings that failed because, according to the comments, the manufacturers put in poor-quality ones (which they had substituted for better ones as a replacement part).

Clearly if you want to eek out another 1% and have a sponsor for your racing, or a lot of money to spend that's great, I think it's more interesting however to get a bike that performs nearly as well when newly serviced, and is more durable & costs less to maintain.

[thelawnet]

I would guess that for most people there would come a point where it becomes a matter of the value of their time. As an example; if you had won, say, £120 million on the lottery, would you still want to wait for two weeks to get your car in for service, another week for essential parts to be delivered and a couple more days for fitting - or would you just buy a new car to take that luggage-less road trip to Switzerland that you'd always promised yourself? etc. etc.

Well that depends. If you have to take your bike to the shop every six months, that will take some of your time as well. And if you don't know how to change a chain or tyre then that's going to make it very difficult to go very far away from home. Some bike maintenance knowledge is necessary for the ownership of a bicycle.

This is not really true for cars, which are essentially designed to be maintenance-free in terms of the owner at this point.

[amediasatex]

I don't think comparisons with Porsches are very apt. A Porsche is much faster than a 1l Fiesta, but you can buy all the bicycle you want, and still lose to someone on a steed costing 1/10 as much.

It's not a comparison of cars Vs bikes, it's about appreciating the end of the markets/products you're comparing.
A high performance full suspension MTB designed for proper offroad is a very different kind of bike to your everyday bike or even a training bike and expensive maintenance is to be expected. There are cheaper alternatives which are 90% as capable, even when comparing FS MTBs, but to make comment about a high end bike having a high end repair bill misses the point, it's a high end bike, a cheaper one, even a full sus would have cheaper parts to look aftert.

Obviously if you have a full suspension bike then you will need to service the shocks (I believe that this is recommended 100-hourly?),

As above it depends on which shocks, some decently durable mid range shocks can go 150-200 hrs before needing a service, and then only need a cheap oil change and clean, maybe some £20 seals, others have much shorter service lives (25-50hrs) and can require a full rebuild with consequently higher bills.

e.g., the $$$ freehub that apparently is prone to failure, compared to a more sturdy and far cheaper one,
the 1x10-42 drivetrain that was apparently junked because of the not-in-stock 10t freehub body, combined with expensive cassette,

Benefits of 1x11 or 10t aside, going to a different type of freehub because it's not in stock is a change borne of convenience or poor planning. If the correct freehub had been available then there would have been no need to lose the 'benefit' of the 10t capable XD driver. The reason a lot of freehubs fail is the constant pursuit of reducing weight, building them out of Alu and not beefy enough where it counts. Personally I do not think this is an area where you should compromise and I've often them with Steel alternatives where available (Hope and Chris King) and 'resolved' that issue but it comes from them chasing 'performance', other bikes may have more durable component choices as they're pitched at a different segment of the market.

the frame pivot bearings that failed because, according to the comments, the manufacturers put in poor-quality ones (which they had substituted for better ones as a replacement part).

This is a bug-bear of many mechanics and riders alike, many frames are shipped with bearings that are not ideally specified for the job, and often under greased and poorly shielded, some manufacturers are better than others but pivot bearing replacement is an ongoing thorn int he side of many full suss bikes and I really wish more manufacturers would pay attention to improving things in this area.

Clearly if you want to eek out another 1% and have a sponsor for your racing, or a lot of money to spend that's great, I think it's more interesting however to get a bike that performs nearly as well when newly serviced, and is more durable & costs less to maintain.

I completely agree, the bikes I do the most miles on are simple and cheap to run yet perform very well indeed, but when racing some of the new tech available is a genuine benefit and I make use of it, that doesn't make it suitable for everyday use but it shouldn't come as a surprise that performance parts come with a price tag both in initial cost and in maintenance and replacement, so if you choose to use that kind of equipment its a cost you have to stomach. whether you need that equipment is another matter entirely!

[Airsporter1st]

I would guess that for most people there would come a point where it becomes a matter of the value of their time. As an example; if you had won, say, £120 million on the lottery, would you still want to wait for two weeks to get your car in for service, another week for essential parts to be delivered and a couple more days for fitting - or would you just buy a new car to take that luggage-less road trip to Switzerland that you'd always promised yourself? etc. etc.

Well that depends. If you have to take your bike to the shop every six months, that will take some of your time as well. And if you don't know how to change a chain or tyre then that's going to make it very difficult to go very far away from home. Some bike maintenance knowledge is necessary for the ownership of a bicycle.

This is not really true for cars, which are essentially designed to be maintenance-free in terms of the owner at this point.

Well, I would guess that someone who is mega wealthy, would simply have a number of spare bikes, so knowledge of maintenance would no more be required than with a car. They would pay someone else to take care of the maintenance. Equally, a puncture or breakdown can happen at any time, bike or car, but someone who is mega wealthy would likely respond differently, e.g. call up a taxi to drop off a replacement bike or take them on their way. Despite what some people might say, (lots of) money can and does make difference. Of course, if bike maintenance is an integral part of any particular mega wealthy person's hobby, then that would be a different matter but wasn't the point I was making.

One of the most successful model helicopter pilots is a gent by the name of Tareq Ali who is a UAE national. He performs the most amazing manoeuvres, no doubt because he is naturally talented, but also because he has no fear of crashing a £2000 helicopter - he just gets another new one out. For the majority of fliers, fear of crashing, which is almost always expensive with the bigger models, is greatly inhibiting.

[Brucey]

if your MTB fails in the middle of nowhere you can have a nasty accident and/or be stranded. It doesn't matter much if you have a garage full of shiny bikes at home or not, you are just as injured/inconvenienced. You have to take some responsibility for the bike you ride, even if it is just checking the tyres over (because you trust your mechanic to do everything else perfectly). The analogy with cars is interesting; the most likely time (per mile driven) for a car to break down is right after it has been serviced.

cheers