Climate change

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reohn2
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Climate change

Postby reohn2 » 8 Dec 2018, 1:54pm

Do we think the human race is capable of,if not stopping it,then minimising it?
Bearing in mind we haven't done much to prevent it happening so far,seemingly preferring profit than anything else first.
Or are we so near a tipping point that when reached it's catastrophic effects can't be undone.
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gaz
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Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Climate change

Postby gaz » 8 Dec 2018, 2:32pm

I do think that climate change may prove capable of minimising, if not stopping, the human race.

reohn2
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Re: Climate change

Postby reohn2 » 8 Dec 2018, 2:35pm

gaz wrote:I do think that climate change may prove capable of minimising, if not stopping, the human race.

That very well may be the outcome,and the process mean a lot of human suffering.
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Cugel
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Re: Climate change

Postby Cugel » 8 Dec 2018, 4:08pm

reohn2 wrote:Do we think the human race is capable of,if not stopping it,then minimising it?
Bearing in mind we haven't done much to prevent it happening so far,seemingly preferring profit than anything else first.
Or are we so near a tipping point that when reached it's catastrophic effects can't be undone.


Humans exhibit a vast hubris in believing that they are somehow in control of the things that they do, the things that the world does or anything else. Some are even worse than that, believing they have a right to not only control but exploit the world as they see fit. This is largely a belief coming out of the monotheistic religions that poses humans as God's special creatures, top of some Earthly hierarchy and given "stewardship of The Earth".

Whilst the inheritors of these assumptions have often cast aside the religious backdrop (although many haven't - see Yankland) they still retain these beliefs. Even those who see the problems that humans cause with with exploitative "stewardship" suffer from the delusion that their good intentions won't come with 10-times the unintended effects. Often those unintended effects completely overwhelm or obliterate the intended good effects. The good effects themselves often turn out to be inherently bad, at least in terms of survival or well-being; or the price something or someone else has to pay.

Personally I believe that evolutionary processes will drive us to behave as we do and that the consequences will be the usual ones when there's a plague of anything. Factors affected by the plague will suffer. We've already caused mass extinctions, vast pollution and an unstoppable climate change. We will then have a population crash or perhaps an extinction event of our own. No human can fix this. Hardly any actually want to, since we're behaving just as we ever have, despite knowing the likely consequences.

After all, who here has given up the car, the central heating, the foodstuffs from abroad, the use of plastic, etcetera, etcetera?

Cugel

pwa
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Re: Climate change

Postby pwa » 8 Dec 2018, 4:37pm

I see nothing to indicate that the path towards disaster will be avoided. China is still building new coal fired power stations as we are closing ours. We have outsourced manufacturing to China, which has a lot of coal left and intends using it.

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Climate change

Postby landsurfer » 8 Dec 2018, 4:50pm

Gaia Principle will out .... whatever we do ....
While we destroy our economy and way of life on the alter of the god Global Warming, for it is a strong belief, with many followers ...
The mega economies of China and India will continue burn fossil fuels.
But whether that effects climate change i doubt ... climate change happens ... without the acolytes of global warming getting their fossil fuelled pants in a twist.
The Road Goes On Forever.

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Climate change

Postby kwackers » 8 Dec 2018, 5:23pm

Too many idiots in the world who don't like to change their mind, so I reckon even if humans make it our civilisation wont.

My earliest knowledge of climate change was from the early 80's.
We've gone through a number of phases since then.

"No, it's not happening"
"OK, it's happening but its nothing to do with us"
"OK, we're changing the climate but there's nothing we can do about it"

Some folk are further along the curve than others.
Trouble is those with power are nearer the start and those with money don't care as long as they're dead before the party stops.

It's the usual, spend a bit of money now to save a lot of money later. Surprising how many people don't like spending money until they're forced to.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Climate change

Postby roubaixtuesday » 8 Dec 2018, 5:24pm

landsurfer wrote:Gaia Principle will out .... whatever we do ....
While we destroy our economy and way of life on the alter of the god Global Warming, for it is a strong belief, with many followers ...
The mega economies of China and India will continue burn fossil fuels.
But whether that effects climate change i doubt ... climate change happens ... without the acolytes of global warming getting their fossil fuelled pants in a twist.


That's rather garbled and nonsensical.

It is a fact that carbon dioxide has risen from about 280 to about 400ppm as a result of burning fossil fuels.

It is a fact that the properties of carbon dioxide dictate that it reduces the transmission of heat from the Earth.

The discovery of these facts has at no time involved Gaia, altars, Gods, pants (twisted or otherwise) or acolytes.

They remain facts whatever ridiculous polemic is thrown at them; the laws of physics are entirely impervious to human rhetoric.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Climate change

Postby roubaixtuesday » 8 Dec 2018, 5:28pm

On disaster and tipping points.

There is no level of global warming at which everything is fine, and no level at which there is total cataclysm.

Rather, the more warning there is, the worse things get.

The converse, of course, is that everything, however small, done to reduce emissions, helps.

Naturally, that includes every extra metre cycled rather than driven.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Climate change

Postby Oldjohnw » 8 Dec 2018, 5:29pm

It's a strange phenomenon how people believe science for medical advances, transport, warfare, entertainment and so on. But when it comes to climate, the fact that almost every scientist writes from the same song sheet does affect them one bit. They say science is wrong.

brynpoeth
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Re: Climate change

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Dec 2018, 5:43pm

Speculation
What if the world were cooling down? :?

pwa is right again :wink: coal mining underground has been stopped in many western countries, we just import coal from distant places where it is mined much more 'cheaply', or the production of goods takes place in China for example

It is quite possible to build zero-energy dwellings now, thick walls, insulation, solar panels

Unlike on b****t I do not know enough about this, really no-one knows what might happen, right? :?
..
Perhaps we could state our qualifications to pontificate on this thread, I have none
I know we do have some smart people, scientists, PhDs
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Climate change

Postby roubaixtuesday » 8 Dec 2018, 6:19pm

really no-one knows what might happen, right? :?


There is considerable uncertainty on the rate and amount of warning to come, even if we knew exactly what our future emissions were to be.

But the rough amount expected by the end of this century is 3 or 4 degrees, without us controlling our emissions. By comparison, it was about 5 degrees cooler in the last ice age.

These are huge changes, and on a very, very, short timescale by geological standards.

Might it be less than 3 degrees? Sure. But equally, it might be more. Warning beyond two degrees is generally considered dangerous.

pwa
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Re: Climate change

Postby pwa » 8 Dec 2018, 6:46pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:On disaster and tipping points.

There is no level of global warming at which everything is fine, and no level at which there is total cataclysm.

Rather, the more warning there is, the worse things get.

The converse, of course, is that everything, however small, done to reduce emissions, helps.

Naturally, that includes every extra metre cycled rather than driven.

According to one credible theory there very much is a tipping point, where methane locked up in the permafrost in arctic regions is released due to thawing and itself accelerates the thawing. If that happens the process will speed up and be beyond pulling back.

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Climate change

Postby landsurfer » 8 Dec 2018, 6:59pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
It is a fact that carbon dioxide has risen from about 280 to about 400ppm as a result of burning fossil fuels.

It is a fact that the properties of carbon dioxide dictate that it reduces the transmission of heat from the Earth.

The discovery of these facts has at no time involved Gaia, altars, Gods, pants (twisted or otherwise) or acolytes.

They remain facts whatever ridiculous polemic is thrown at them; the laws of physics are entirely impervious to human rhetoric.


Sorry, thats a rather garbled response .... not sure what what your saying ???
The Road Goes On Forever.

landsurfer
Posts: 3980
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Climate change

Postby landsurfer » 8 Dec 2018, 7:01pm

Oldjohnw wrote:It's a strange phenomenon how people believe science for medical advances, transport, warfare, entertainment and so on. But when it comes to climate, the fact that almost every scientist writes from the same song sheet does affect them one bit. They say science is wrong.


If only every scientist did :roll: .... lets separate "Climate Change" from "Global Warming" ... one is scientific fact the other is a religion ....
The Road Goes On Forever.