Cycling UK Forum

Thank you Bensons, for sharing your thoughts. The cyclist doing a wheelie sounds very scary indeed and I can start to see just how much this could impact horse and rider.

To answer Flinders, who puts some interesting points to me.

I think to join a forum and not seem to acknowledge a right of reply is not fair and is possibly not in the spirit of coming to some sort of mutual understanding. I am willing to take responsibility when I offer back possibly contentious views in the knowledge that I have made an effort to provide a well thought out and respectful response. The extra dimension of narrative feedback can only enhance my understanding of any situation or issue.

Quite frankly Flinders, with respect to the differences or similarities between horses and children I would not ask a child of mine to go out on a road if he or she did not want to. If the horse could verbalise and said "please don't take me out on the road again", would you Flinders, take it anyway? Personally I think horses do "speak" in many ways and maybe they are trying to tell us how they are feeling when they appear nervous. I find it intriguing that parental relationships come into this discussion.

Is trying to re habilitate the horse to "traffic" acting towards the riders' benefit or the horses'? Does the horse have a say in it and if they did, would they choose to go out in traffic?

Personally with regard to any of my offspring, I don't think I would force them into a potentially re traumatising experience if they told me they did not want to or appeared not to want to. Maybe someone who said they would, could be seen as possibly having somewhat questionable motives.

Horses have a huge capacity to pick up on human anxiety from anyone around them, which I feel needs to be in the discussion. Maybe if the rider is anxious out on the roads, the horse reacts empathically to it's rider as well as it's innate sense of the environment. So re introduction on the road could then be as much about the dynamic round the rider's confidence as well as the horse's. Then possibly it draws in the particular individual relationship between horse and rider, in terms of trust, setting boundaries and who's will then prevails.

Of course the horse doesn't get a say in it! You can't humanise them, they are horses!

As for what is in their best interests, I have always bought very young horses and backed them myself, my oldest one is now 25 and I have owned her since she was two. The cycling 'incident' happened when she was four. Of course I could have sent her to the knackers yard and bought a new one but I didn't, I resolved the issue, which took some time.

If you were that nervous you wouldn't get on one, if the road was the cause of your issues you would get someone to come with you to help you out unless you were too worried to do that when you would keep off the roads, as my friend does.

Sometimes things happen to shake your confidence, just like anything else in life. You can't quantify a rider's level of anxiousness or how flighty a horse is, I am not sure what you are trying to say in your last paragraph but I get the impression that you almost think that horses shouldn't be on the roads.

I ride horses and I ride bikes. I actually feel safer on the road on a horse generally, I find cars much more considerate than when I am on a bike on the same roads.

This thread is about horses and cyclists sharing the road, courtesy and consideration from all sides, perhaps with a bit of learned awareness is all that is needed.

Horses would probably rather go free to graze on what they wanted, chases each other up down, etc. Though I guess they'd probably like tasty bits from humans now and again and a safe place to sleep

Traffic? nah..

Horses do communicate. Some horses are better at it than others, and some people are better at understanding it than others.

Goodness I seem to have annoyed quite a lot of people by not staying online or not replying quickly enough to responses from my post about horses and cyclists.
I've been busy but I have a few spare minutes now.
Most people don't keep horses just to have in a field sorry but they are far too expensive and time consuming just for that purpose a bit like buying a bike and leaving it in the garage to rust...except a horse is a living breathing creature. It does them no good to do nothing and would be a welfare issue but I'm not here to post about that I'm sure there are many people who'd go off on a rant about that.
I don't hate cyclist but I am getting more and more uptight because of the lack of consideration, apart from the fact that lack of consideration is very dangerous for me the cyclist and my horse.
I'm still working on my horse on a daily basis to overcome his fear I can't give up on him and I won't I'm just asking for the same consideration that cyclists expect from cars etc. is it so hard to co exist? I'm not rude to cyclists. I wish I could say most smile and are considerate but my own experience is much different please prove me wrong.
I've written to the British Horse Society about my experience as they've just done a big campaign to educate motor vehicle drivers about the needs of riders so I wondered if there were any plans for a similar campaign aimed at cyclists and riders. I also copied the mail to ROSPA and today I've had a response asking me to ring them so we will see where that goes.
Thanks to those that saw my message as more of a cry for help than a hate mail for cyclists, it was intended as the former and not the latter.

I have a few more spare minutes now so I'm editing this post having had the time to re read other folks posts.
I am more than aware that cyclists are also vulnerable road users and when I'm driving I wait and give a wide berth even if it means following them for some considerable distance (which it usually does where I live as most roads are narrow single track with passing places).
My own experience with cars is good you get the odd one who won't slow down, but generally most do and are thanked accordingly. My horse is brilliant with cars, waggons, tractors and most scary things he just has an issue with bikes because of his past experiences.
'Like I said his training is ongoing relying on friends and hubby with bikes. He was nearly back to his old self i.e. didn't care about bikes until the recent incident of the near head on collision. The problem is when something like that happens it just reiterates that bikes are indeed something to run from. A truly frightened horse will run in a blind panic even if they have a good relationship with their rider/handler.
I've been riding on roads with horses for 40 odd years with loads of different horses and it's never been so difficult as now. Cycling has really taken off getting out in the fresh air enjoying the countryside (......hmm is that not what I'm trying to do?).

For those that seem to be inferring: I do hold 3rd party public liability insurance and I do hold my riding and road safety certificate. I have regular instruction from a BHSII (British Horse Society Intermediate Instructor) who acts as my coach as I like dressage and compete in that. I also hold my BHS stage 2 Riding and Horse Care exam (part way to being an instructor) so I am a reasonably competent rider with 40 odd years of experience.
I've had this particular horse for 4 years he wasn't in a good place when he came to me. He didn't like people and had shut down not wanting to bother with anything. He's now a completely different animal comes to call always wants to be with me and enjoys going out, so I must be doing something right. That's why I won't give up on him.

Hope the weather is good this weekend and we can all get out without getting drenched.

Didn't see a cyclist today first day in ages...have I frightened you all away?

Thanks BevGreen I would rather see ten horses with their very pleasant riders than one car, any day of the week.

Thanks Bensons too, I do notice the anatomical difference and I am interested in how horse riders relate to their horses. We all form relationships in different ways I guess. Horses are used with psychological therapy and I have been interested how they can pick up on our emotions even when we don't know we're having them. Horses are incredible creatures, not human, granted, but very skilled with humans all the same.

As a cyclist I feel really vulnerable when someone decides to have a go at me in their car or whatever other vehicle they are driving. It's interesting BevGreen that it seems, if I read your post right, that the horse is a kind of safety factor.

I also am interested to hear that horses would seem to have better lives when they are taken out and they probably enjoy hacks even when they have a road section. This makes it a lot clearer and thanks for explaining that.

It may have got lost in a mist of words but I respect people that look after horses who clearly devote so much time an effort to the welfare of their animals. The countryside is so much better for them being there and I always enjoy looking at how well turned out they are. Immaculate in some cases and a truly majestic sight. I said to one lady once just how beautiful her horse was turned out and I think she really appreciated it and I think the horse did too.

It's frustrating when I spend effort writing posts on really interesting subjects and the posters never return. I am so happy that you posted back BevGreen. You have given a really interesting dimension to the discussion for me. Thanks for that, truly.

Trading anecdotes about inconsiderate horse riders or cyclists doesn't progress the discussion very far.
As a cyclist I have always harboured a fear of horses - in my experience they seem unpredictable and often difficult for their mount to control but I'm beginning to understand that their erratic behaviour is due to their fear of me.
Choosing as I do to cycle the quiet country lanes it is quite common for me to come across a horse rider doing the same; enjoying a ride. I have learnt that to slow right down, even stop. To call out to the rider, making my presence known and if necessary to ask them when it is OK to pass - seems to be a good strategy. What is more, a smile and a bit of consideration adds to the pleasure that both parties are getting from being out in the countryside enjoying the activity that they love.

Revolution wrote:Trading anecdotes about inconsiderate horse riders or cyclists doesn't progress the discussion very far.
As a cyclist I have always harboured a fear of horses - in my experience they seem unpredictable and often difficult for their mount to control but I'm beginning to understand that their erratic behaviour is due to their fear of me.
Choosing as I do to cycle the quiet country lanes it is quite common for me to come across a horse rider doing the same; enjoying a ride. I have learnt that to slow right down, even stop. To call out to the rider, making my presence known and if necessary to ask them when it is OK to pass - seems to be a good strategy. What is more, a smile and a bit of consideration adds to the pleasure that both parties are getting from being out in the countryside enjoying the activity that they love.

A colleague of mine gave an interesting perspective from her lofty position as a rider (literal, not metaphorical observation ).

She explained that the issue wasn't with her horse, who would have long seen the cyclist coming (prey animal, eyes on side of head etc), rather it's she being startled at the sudden appearance of a cyclist, and transmitting this to her horse, who promptly decides that as mum's reacted, so should he!

I like to whistle a cheery tune, not specifically at the rider, but while I'm still some hundred metres away. Sound carries well and makes my presence know, while I'm still too distant to be demanding to pass or anything. Then we can both take any necessary steps to get me past safely.

All my rural riding in Britain has been done on a tandem. My stoker and I always converse loudly and cheerfully with each other as we approach a horse and rider, which seems effective in announcing our presence.

I suppose a solo rider could hold a vigorous conversation with himself, which should help to avoid startling the horse … but it might make the rider a bit anxious.

Revolution you have hit the nail on the head on the perfect way to deal with horses and riders on the road. I'm sorry that our presence frightens you but if you behave as you state I'm pretty sure you won't have any problems. All we need is communication a lot of horses are fine with bikes some not so good and some downright frightened but let us know you are there ask if ok to pass and be prepared to stop if something happens.
I met a cyclist at speed today and my boy was fine but I had stopped on a wide part of the road and the cyclist passed wide and slow perfect.
Some horses stress if approached fast from behind some if approached fast head on (like mine, but he's now usually ok if the rider slows right down and give us a wide berth) .
There seems to be a lot of talk about if the rider is frightened the horse reacts and yes this can be true they do feed off the energy in the area whether that is the rider or other external factor but regardless if you let us know you are there and slow down we can usually manage to placate them.
Thanks Everyone for your feedback happy cycling/riding

I ride both horse and bike and find that approaching (a) while riding (b) from behind, if possible pull out wide so horse can see you (eyes on sides of head) and/or speak so both rider and horse hear a normal human voice. If horse freaks out when approaching from the front slow down and/or stop.

I often wonder why people take horses out onto the roads.

It is not a quick way to get around and many of the horses do not seem to enjoy the experience much, being easily frightened by slight noises or sudden movements.

If I owned one I wouldn't take it on the roads at all as it seems cruel and pointless to do so.

blackbike wrote:I often wonder why people take horses out onto the roads.

It is not a quick way to get around and many of the horses do not seem to enjoy the experience much, being easily frightened by slight noises or sudden movements.

If I owned one I wouldn't take it on the roads at all as it seems cruel and pointless to do so.

People often take horses on roads just to get to bridle paths or byways.

But there is also that someone who lives on a quiet lane may take a horse out on the road, and only encounter traffic once in every 4 or 5 outings.

Horses need their exercise, just like you & me.

It is far from cruel to take horses out on roads, most do enjoy getting out and about, we often meet up with other riders and go out together socially. It is more cruel to abandon them in a small field where life can be quiet but boring.
Horses are by nature easily frightened some more than others (it depends on their breeding and /or their training and experience). A horse is a prey animal in frightening situations they react quickly and blindly they just want to escape. For a horse safety is within the herd that is where they are less likely to be picked off by predators and that is why you should never separate a group of horse riders. Horses naturally want to co operate with the herd that is why we have been so successful in building relationships with them. In a herd if they misbehave they will be sent away which is a scary place for a horse to be, so they learn from a young age to co operate with the herd (i.e. "us") but you cannot get away from their inherent nature to run when frightened.
Riders get out not to get around quickly, but to enjoy the partnership with their horses and the countryside. Most riders even if they could ride in fields(most farmers and livery yard owners won't allow it, it churns up the land) would not choose to do so (riding round and round is not very interesting for both horse and rider). There are few bridleways and off road routes available to most people and given a choice most would prefer to ride without having to go on a busy road or even a quiet country lane (most of the BHS statistics show that the vast majority of accidents happen on quiet country lanes), but the reality is we have to, to enjoy our riding.
Arenas are wonderful things to have. That is where we educate our horse on a safe level area. We can jump and train but to the horse it is hard work, so we would not use them day in and day out. A couple of times a week is more than enough for the average pleasure horse. Having said that not everyone has access to one they cost in excess of £25,000 to put in properly (there are a lot of materials underneath the arena to aid drainage which is essential to ensure they do not become water logged). I wish I could afford one but I can't so I have to use the roads to get to one that I can hire by the hour.

I use the same tone of voice when checking owl boxes for a local wildlife charity when approaching horses from behind. "Hello! It's only me!" As if the horse knows [emoji12]

I rode in my youth for about a decade and from that insight I choose not to ring my bell. Every horse, it seems, has a little foible. And I would rather try and avoid a rider falling from that height onto Tarmac.

Can I improve my technique?