Should Sat Navs have screens?

[Peter Rowell]

I find the visual display easier to work with than the verbal guidance which occasionally manages to confuse "Follow around lefthand bend" with"Turn left!" and frequently does not give enough notice when approaching roundabouts.

If it is not giving you enough notice of a turn, could it be that you are driving too fast?
It may be telling you to slow down.

TV screens are illegal if in the drivers field of view and Sat/Nav.'s should be as well. Both are distractions as are mobile phones.

[pete75]

Out of curiosity have ther been any GPS related accidents? as these gadgets have been out for quite a while now. I did a quick google check but it came up with un-related links.... perhaps i need to refine my search or there hasn't been any....yet
p.s. i'm not taking sides (my screen is disabled (by choice) as mentioned earlier to conserve battery power) i'm just curious.

There's certainly been GPS assisted collisions at sea.

One of the main reasons many have satnav systems switche don at all times is that they tell them where the speed cameras are.

[Jeckyll_n_Snyde]

Out of curiosity have ther been any GPS related accidents? as these gadgets have been out for quite a while now. I did a quick google check but it came up with un-related links.... perhaps i need to refine my search or there hasn't been any....yet
p.s. i'm not taking sides (my screen is disabled (by choice) as mentioned earlier to conserve battery power) i'm just curious.

There's certainly been GPS assisted collisions at sea.

Wow... ah well, i'll just have to avoid riding my bike whilst at sea

[DaveP]

If it is not giving you enough notice of a turn, could it be that you are driving too fast?
It may be telling you to slow down.

To be honest, this interpretation is so far from what I had in mind that I initially thought this was a facetious comment.
Having taken a deep breath...

In a word, No.
I was actually referring to roundabouts in my initial post, but the same could be said for any multi lane situation, where common sense and/or the rules of the road dictate that it is desirable to position your vehicle in a particular lane in order to proceed in a specific direction. The verbal guidance on my machine is sometimes not available until well past the point where I would prefer to change lanes. It is triggered by location, speed has nothing to do with it - I can have the same problems at a dead crawl - the truth is that sometimes the location systems are less precise than at others. I have had this problem in a car. There are several valid reasons why it is appropriate to make lane changes rather earlier when driving a truck, which is the vehicle I bought it to use in. The visual guidance for roundabouts, by comparison, is always available well in advance.
I think it might be helpful to point out that people can have very different mental lives. Some people think in a very verbal style. My mind has a visual bias and I solve a lot of my inner debates with little "diagrams". Perhaps as a consequence of this I find it easier to glance at a section of map than to follow the verbal guidance. In fact, there have been occasions where the verbal guidance has been delivered but I have been utterly unable to take it in at the time of delivery because there was so much going on around my vehicle. The map view is there for me to consult when I decide to.

[thirdcrank]

It's amazing how the people responsible for route signing seem unable to grasp some of the issues there. Arrows on the road should be sufficiently far in advance so they are not covered by queuing traffic. Advance warning signs should give just that. (On the massive Tingley roundabout J 28 M62 there are even destinations painted on the road which conflict with what is shown on the gantries.) These people seem to lack the wit to understand that signs are for strangers to the area, not just for people who know the way in spite of misleading signs.

[DaveP]

The central objection to the use of satnav screens is that they create a dangerous situation because they distract the driver from his central task, which seems to be defined more or less as "watching the road ahead".

I can think of a couple of objections to this view.
Firstly, I reject the suggestion that looking ahead should be the drivers principal activity - that is a very naive view. What is required, for safe smooth driving is an awareness of what is happening all around your vehicle, and this necessarily entails much mirror gazing. The need is perhaps greater when the vehicle in question is so large that it barely fits into marked lanes on a straight road, but it does apply to cars as well. Normally I am constantly scanning, off mirror, ahead, near mirror, ahead... and it has to be done because my vehicle, at times, has to use more than one lane. Very few car drivers seem able to anticipate this so I have to do the anticipation for all of us. I sometimes feel, when driving in town, that I am spending more time mirror watching than looking forwards.

As well as keeping track of nearby vehicles I have to direct my own to its appointed destination. That requires even more traffic management if I am to reach the proper position on the road for the necessary manouvres. And to direct all this, in order to follow the proper direction, I have to locate and take the time to read road signs. They are often poorly sited - hidden, or just far too close to the junction. And I also have to look out for the signs telling me not to proceed down certain roads, height and weight restrictions and the like. And then there are the cyclists, and the pedestrians...

Trying to do a good job of it can be very taxing. Why then, do I feel it desirable to have the added distraction of a satnav screen in my field of view?
There can be only one answer. It isnt a distraction, it pays its way! Its just another dash board display, holding out a little information, in readiness for a convenient moment. That information is offered in a particularly accessible form that paper maps cannot match. It shows me at most a couple of hundred yards of road and marks my current position on it, so I never have to "find my place". Knowing that it is there frees me from the burden of having to worry about "missing my turn". Using it allows me to integrate monitoring my route with monitoring the traffic around me pretty successfully. I have noticed that I drive more smoothly when using it and that usually means more safely too.

I have no doubt that satnavs, like any other device, will be abused by some. I have seen plenty of people shaving and applying makeup on the move, using - you've guessed it - their rearview mirrors. Is abuse by a minority really adequate grounds for banning a device that, properly used, has the potential to make our roads safer?

[2Tubs]

The central objection to the use of satnav screens is that they create a dangerous situation because they distract the driver from his central task, which seems to be defined more or less as "watching the road ahead".

I can think of a couple of objections to this view.
Firstly, I reject the suggestion that looking ahead should be the drivers principal activity - that is a very naive view. What is required, for safe smooth driving is an awareness of what is happening all around your vehicle, and this necessarily entails much mirror gazing. The need is perhaps greater when the vehicle in question is so large that it barely fits into marked lanes on a straight road, but it does apply to cars as well. Normally I am constantly scanning, off mirror, ahead, near mirror, ahead... and it has to be done because my vehicle, at times, has to use more than one lane. Very few car drivers seem able to anticipate this so I have to do the anticipation for all of us. I sometimes feel, when driving in town, that I am spending more time mirror watching than looking forwards.

As well as keeping track of nearby vehicles I have to direct my own to its appointed destination. That requires even more traffic management if I am to reach the proper position on the road for the necessary manouvres. And to direct all this, in order to follow the proper direction, I have to locate and take the time to read road signs. They are often poorly sited - hidden, or just far too close to the junction. And I also have to look out for the signs telling me not to proceed down certain roads, height and weight restrictions and the like. And then there are the cyclists, and the pedestrians...

Trying to do a good job of it can be very taxing. Why then, do I feel it desirable to have the added distraction of a satnav screen in my field of view?
There can be only one answer. It isnt a distraction, it pays its way! Its just another dash board display, holding out a little information, in readiness for a convenient moment. That information is offered in a particularly accessible form that paper maps cannot match. It shows me at most a couple of hundred yards of road and marks my current position on it, so I never have to "find my place". Knowing that it is there frees me from the burden of having to worry about "missing my turn". Using it allows me to integrate monitoring my route with monitoring the traffic around me pretty successfully. I have noticed that I drive more smoothly when using it and that usually means more safely too.

I have no doubt that satnavs, like any other device, will be abused by some. I have seen plenty of people shaving and applying makeup on the move, using - you've guessed it - their rearview mirrors. Is abuse by a minority really adequate grounds for banning a device that, properly used, has the potential to make our roads safer?

I can almost agree, but it the above is a little misrepresentative of real life.

Yes, people can shave and apply makeup usnig a rear view mirror.

As you rightly say, that's an abuse.

drivers are meant to be aware of what's going on around them Indeed. That's why a further distraction of a sat nav screen is so dangerous.

And the time they are most distracting to the driver is at one of the most dangerous times for a moving vehicle, at junctions. Instead of watching out for any unexpected danger, drivers find themslves checking a satnav screen as apparently, audible instructions aren't quite clear enough.

As cyclists we should be aware how uncomfortable junctions and islands can be. I'd feel happier knownig that a driver was at least looking outside their car as they negotiate them.

It's amazing, 15 years ago I drove as part of my job. I would often visit places I'd never been to before. I didn't have sat nav yet I still managed to arrive at my destiniation. Blimey. I'm not one to halt technology, I'd be out of a job. I have sat nav myself (just upgraded and my new one has a "Bicycle Mode". Yeehah!) But from some reaction to this yuo'd think that it was impossible to drive without a digital map to gawp at.

The screen doesn't need to be on. There is no reasonable argument to say that it should be on while the car is moving. Audible instructions are more than fine.

Gazza

[Ben Lovejoy]

The screen doesn't need to be on. There is no reasonable argument to say that it should be on while the car is moving. Audible instructions are more than fine.

Actually, you've been given several reasonable arguments.

The way in which you use your GPS may well be the best approach for you; it will not necessarily be the best approach for others.

Ben

[2Tubs]

The screen doesn't need to be on. There is no reasonable argument to say that it should be on while the car is moving. Audible instructions are more than fine.

Actually, you've been given several reasonable arguments.

The way in which you use your GPS may well be the best approach for you; it will not necessarily be the best approach for others.

Ben

No, I've been given several excuses for the dangerous use of unnecessary equipment.

You used the argument that it's no different from glancing at your speedo.

As I've said, you don't need to do that too often as you can fairly accurately judge your speed using gears, engine noise and the environment outside the car.

And you can glance at the speedo when on a straight road.

You have said you need to look at the screen to make sure ou have the right junction. The most dangerous time for a distraction.

There is another, safer option. You have audio directions. NOt sure why I'm so special, or you so disadvantaged that I find it more than adequate and you find it unusable.

The argument that it's perfectly safe is exactly the sort of argument that mobile phone users and people who just have the one drink use.

They were wrong too.

Gazza

[DaveP]

the time they are most distracting to the driver is at one of the most dangerous times for a moving vehicle, at junctions. Instead of watching out for any unexpected danger, drivers find themslves checking a satnav screen as apparently, audible instructions aren't quite clear enough.

I find it strange that your experiences and mine seem to be exact opposites.
The device itself is neither more nor less distracting than any of the other visual displays that are found in a modern vehicle and can be used in the same way - glanced at when it is safe and convenient to do so. When used in this way it allows me to prepare for a junction, both mentally (correct exit identified) and physically (vehicle in suitable position). By the time I arrive at the junction I dont need to look at it, and have some extra capacity to attend to traffic movements.
To bring it a little closer to home, I'm more likely to spot an oncoming car pulling out round an unlit cyclist If I'm not tied up looking for road signs or trying to read street names.
Verbal guidance has two defects. Firstly, it is only delivered at predetermined locations, which might not suit me or the prevailing traffic conditions. (Just like road signs!) Secondly, it is a derivative system. It is based on visual mapping so incorporates any errors or obsolescence present in the source material and adds its very own errors of interpretation.
Until last year most of my truck journeys were to known destinations. Now I only go to unknown ones. This very soon brought home to me how much of your day can be spent driving round in ever decreasing circles. Congestion is very much worse than it was 15 years ago, and getting lost in a vehicle that cant be turned round easily can eat into the day. As well as the loss of time, something I dont lose sleep over, you might wish to consider additional mileage. How many accidents will be (statistically) associated with this over a year or so?

[jan19]

OH and I belong to the Camping and Caravanning Club. We get their brochure every year - on most pages the directions to the campsites include "IGNORE the SatNav and follow our directions.....

what's wrong with a map?

[Ben Lovejoy]

You have said you need to look at the screen to make sure ou have the right junction.

I have said no such thing.

If you don't trust yourself to look at any your GPS at appropriate times, then it is perfectly sensible of you to have the screen switched off. Others who find that a GPS is a positive safety aid, enabling them to pay attention to it at the right moment, will have their screens switched on.

Ben

[2Tubs]

You have said you need to look at the screen to make sure ou have the right junction.

I have said no such thing.

Really?

What did you mean by this: -

At a T-junction, no-one does. At a complex roundabout, "Take 2nd exit" could mean I'm turning sharp left or going straight across. My view is that my driving is safer and smoother if I know which, and thus I prefer that glance to see which it is.

Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but I assume you don't stop on an island when you "glance" at your screen to check you have the right exit. Otherwise, why are you arguing?

If you do stop, the car isn't moving, I don't have a problem, no need to discuss.

If you don't trust yourself to look at any your GPS at appropriate times, then it is perfectly sensible of you to have the screen switched off. Others who find that a GPS is a positive safety aid, enabling them to pay attention to it at the right moment, will have their screens switched on.

Ben

You're absolutely right. I'm responsible enough to not look at the screen while the car is in motion (because it's off, no temptation at all).

There isn't an appropriate time to read a directions, electronic or otherwise when the car is in motion.

I'm also responsible enough to not read a map on the move. Some aren't so there is legislation against it.

I'm also responsible enough to not use my mobile phone while driving, some aren't so there is legislation against it.

I'm also responsible enough to not drive after sinking a couple of pints, some aren't so there is legislation against it.

See where I'm going with this?

You may be the safest driver in the world with a Sat Nav (though if you are happy to examine the screen while the car is moving, I doubt it), but by their own admission, a good deal aren't.

Legislation will follow. And rightly so.

Gazza

[Ben Lovejoy]

Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but I assume you don't stop on an island when you "glance" at your screen to check you have the right exit.

No, I will glance at the screen in advance of the junction at a moment when it is safe - just as you, presumably, choose a safe moment to glance at your speedo.

Legislation will follow.

That is exceedingly unlikely.

Ben

[drossall]

I'm another who can't really see the point. With practice, you can learn the trick of looking at a map, then driving to an unfamiliar destination. Not perfect - I make mistakes - but pretty reliable, and I only go somewhere unknown by car once every few months. Most of those times, I have a satnav in the passenger seat anyway, and she's got a nicer voice than the machines

Hardly ever get stuck in traffic enough to bother, either, and Hertfordshire is not exactly the back of beyond.

I do use a GPS for Audaxes, but then I'm telling it where to go, not the other way around.

Anyway, computers don't always know best. I used the RAC route planner to check the travel time to Sudbury for an Audax last weekend. It wanted to send me up round the A11 and A14 and back down again. I looked at a map and stuck in Haverhill as an intermediate stop, and got the equivalent of "Well, yes, that would be 20 minutes quicker..."