Fear.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
brynpoeth
Posts: 11281
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Fear.

Postby brynpoeth » 14 Jan 2019, 6:25pm

De Sisti wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:It is just primitive tribalism - people belong to their own tribe and conform to the social norms of that tribe and reject others.
Any identifiable minority will experience the hate - it is all the same - whether it is hating Blacks or Jews or Muslims or Gays or Mexicans or Catholics or Manchester United fans or Gypsies or Goths ... or cyclists.

3/10 for me 8)

If one is a member of 6/10 minority groups, is one then a member of the majority? :wink:
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2683
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Fear.

Postby Cugel » 14 Jan 2019, 7:18pm

When these sort of ponderings arise, I consider my own feelings when in the role being examined (motorist, in this case). Being a human - and one with a highly variegated nature - I know that it's likely I'll suffer the same set of subconscious (and some conscious) mental churnings as many others driving their cars.....

Although I've learnt to suppress these feelings and attitudes when driving, here is a list of them that I discovered when first "doing motorist".

* I want to exert the power and speed offered by the machine.
* The driving experience is all about skill & control, so obstacles to doing so "at the edge" become a nuisance.
* There is a strange notion arising that "the road is mine" (or the bit of it I'm about to drive on is) - a property fetish type 31c.
* For no reason, the car induces the assumption that the time taken going from A to B must be as short as possible.
* Others on the road are a sort of enemy to my own success at progressing speedily and without hindrance to my power-control hysteria.

There are probably more. Personally I believe they are feelings potentially felt by any human, given the right stimulus. The stimulus in this case is the car and the technological/cultural designs involved, which invoke then amplify the above feelings and several others all to do with the thrill of exerting tremendous power (the engine, steering et al) to overcome physical difficulties (the road).

Many don't examine their behavior and it's motives; nor do they consider alternative mindsets resistant to those induced by driving a car. For them, a cyclist (and/or pedestrian, horse, tractor, caravan, other slower driver, traffic light, etc.) are all enemies attempting to subvert their overpowering desire to exert their overpowering car-power.

Cugel, who only goes mad on a bike now.

charliepolecat
Posts: 315
Joined: 22 Mar 2018, 3:53pm

Re: Fear.

Postby charliepolecat » 14 Jan 2019, 8:39pm

You don't ride in the UK do you?


My cycling has mostly been in Norfolk (UK), Texas, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico.

Come July I will be riding the Inverness 1200.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14032
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Fear.

Postby mjr » 14 Jan 2019, 10:19pm

charliepolecat wrote:
You don't ride in the UK do you?


My cycling has mostly been in Norfolk (UK), Texas, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico.

Come July I will be riding the Inverness 1200.

I was out riding in Norfolk today. About an hour, just to get some Naans from a particular shop on the fens. About a quarter on cycleways, the rest on C roads. Every car and van that passed me did so wonderfully, except for one Mercedes which made a complete mess of it, catching me just before a blind bend junction, then close-passing me on the exit.

I may have offered him some Gold Blend, if you know what I mean, as I didn't have my camera on. ;-)

Anyway, it really is getting pretty good here lately IMO. I credit Operation Close Pass and the local media work that supports it, like "See One, Think Two".
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 3739
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: Fear.

Postby NUKe » 14 Jan 2019, 10:43pm

Car are a status thing, they are there to make there owners feel superior. The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.
NUKe
_____________________________________

charliepolecat
Posts: 315
Joined: 22 Mar 2018, 3:53pm

Re: Fear.

Postby charliepolecat » 14 Jan 2019, 11:05pm

The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.


No question about that. A holes are A holes no matter the situation.

User avatar
bigjim
Posts: 3118
Joined: 2 Feb 2008, 5:08pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Fear.

Postby bigjim » 15 Jan 2019, 10:52am

charliepolecat wrote:
The motorists you come across who are A holes, are probably the same people who bully sales assistants and waiting staff.


No question about that. A holes are A holes no matter the situation.

I'm just about to head out for a 27 mile circuit. I will be close passed constantly and the ones that move to the other side of the road are a rarity. I don't think the majority are malicious, just unskilled and dopey. There will be the odd deliberate close pass. Most just don't care. I'm used to it and have given up remonstrating. I've not found it any different on club runs in different areas or on UK tours. The continent is completely different. Though Portugal has had it's moments.
Nothing left to prove.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17311
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Fear.

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2019, 11:37am

I don't think cyclists are the only target. If you look at the comments section on certain sites, or follow some groups on Twitter, you see that mopeds, pedestrians, and anyone else who gets in the way of motorists are valid targets. And that people who step into the road without looking (especially if they are distracted by a mobile phone) deserve what they get.

Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

brynpoeth
Posts: 11281
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Fear.

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Jan 2019, 11:45am

R2 explained a while ago that drivers of small cars are bullied, I have a small car with a small engine, it is true
What if one has a small car that goes fast and has high status?
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17311
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Fear.

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2019, 12:40pm

brynpoeth wrote:R2 explained a while ago that drivers of small cars are bullied, I have a small car with a small engine, it is true
What if one has a small car that goes fast and has high status?


Expensive race cars have big engines. That counts for more than a big car.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

robing
Posts: 1101
Joined: 7 Sep 2014, 9:11am

Re: Fear.

Postby robing » 15 Jan 2019, 1:05pm

Vorpal wrote:I don't think cyclists are the only target. If you look at the comments section on certain sites, or follow some groups on Twitter, you see that mopeds, pedestrians, and anyone else who gets in the way of motorists are valid targets. And that people who step into the road without looking (especially if they are distracted by a mobile phone) deserve what they get.

Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

I agree. It's not just cyclists. These idiots think they own the roads and can go as fast as they like and nothing should slow them down, whether that's other traffic, pedestrians, lights, roundabouts. I see a lot of these when i am driving. I drive a decent speed, but I don't accelerate needlessly or speed up when it's obvious you are going to have to slow down soon. They only get held up at the next junction.

ambodach
Posts: 849
Joined: 15 Mar 2011, 6:45pm

Re: Fear.

Postby ambodach » 15 Jan 2019, 6:52pm

It is not just cyclists. I have had a variety of vans over the years. A VW type2 with large steel bumpers was slow but got no hassle. Changed to a Bedford Rascal which was faster and quite nippy but got endless attempts at bullying. The best was a rusty Ford Transit. Everybody kept clear.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14032
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Fear.

Postby mjr » 15 Jan 2019, 8:49pm

Vorpal wrote:Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

Oh no it doesn't. It enables massive flows of higher density traffic.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 7805
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: Fear.

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2019, 9:58pm

I have noticed that motorists vary with where you are in the country. Around here there is very little problem with ordinary motorists. The only consistent close passes seem to come from scruffy small white vans. The worst places I have experienced are semi urban places in North Wales, Cheshire and Lancashire, Transits and gas guzzler 4WDs. But, I havent cycled everywhere.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17311
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Fear.

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2019, 10:47pm

mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Cyclists may deserve special malice because of things like cycle lanes and cycle 'superhighways' which clearly make traffic worse at the expense of the taxpayer.

Oh no it doesn't. It enables massive flows of higher density traffic.

Sorry, I forgot [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] :wink:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom