Surly Troll

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.
maxglide
Posts: 178
Joined: 19 May 2013, 5:35pm

Surly Troll

Postby maxglide » 22 Jan 2019, 12:01pm

I've been looking at steel, non sus, 26" wheelers (old school MTB) for my preferred bike type. The Surly Troll came to my attention. It ticks most of the boxes and has positive reviews. So, it's a good bike. Doesn't look bad either.

Then surprise, when I saw the retail price in the UK: 2,000 quid for a bike with nothing special for components and an average frame? Where's the money going?

For less, you could buy an Oxford Bike Works Model 1 (£1,350) or better, a Model 2 (£1,750.) You could get a Thorn Sherpa for £1,368. You could even buy a hand build Stanforth Kibo for £1,750. All IMO, better machines with better builds and more desirable/prestigious. I don't imagine Trolls flying off the shelves.
Last edited by maxglide on 23 Jan 2019, 3:56am, edited 4 times in total.

reohn2
Posts: 34249
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2019, 1:07pm

Or if you're not shackled to 26inch(559) sized wheels both Genesis Vagabond 29er(700C)* or Longitude 27.5inch(650B)are really great bikes,equipped equally as good and at around £1100 better value,or you can buy the frameset and fit it out to suit :)

*which could be fitted with 27.5inch (650B)

EDIT:- just looking at the Troll and comparing it with the Vagabond,the Vagabond doesn't have the same fork leg brazeons as the Troll,the Longitude is pretty well equipped for bikepacking.
Last edited by reohn2 on 22 Jan 2019, 1:20pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Bonefishblues » 22 Jan 2019, 1:16pm

Dollar-pound exchange rate will have exacerbated this, I expect.

Tiberius
Posts: 470
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Tiberius » 22 Jan 2019, 2:39pm

You are not the first person to be shocked at Surly price increases.

In April 2015 I bought a Surly Troll framset (black/large) from 'Triton Cycles' for £404.00....this year's frameset (Triton/black/large) is £712.49.

For me it was all about the versatility of the thing, mine has been very much a 'Frankenbike' in the drivetrain/brakes department. If I had known for an absolute fact that I would (say) always run a Rohloff and never run with discs then I would have gone with a Thorn (it WAS a very close call)

It's a great bike but I wouldn't pay circa £2K for one particularly if it's versitility was an irrelevance to me.

reohn2
Posts: 34249
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2019, 8:41am

Bonefishblues wrote:Dollar-pound exchange rate will have exacerbated this, I expect.

Whatever the reason Surly are pricing themselves out of the European markets,which opens a door for European based manufacturers selling in Europe and the UK.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 780
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Feb 2019, 2:20am

I too have been shocked by the rise in the price of Surly's complete bikes and I already own a Troll albeit an older one. Their individual component prices have always been silly money as they are not anything special. IME their components are far too heavy, meaning you end up with a bike quite literally the weight of a tank if you aren't careful which is why I bought frame only and built my bike myself with Rohloff and hydraulic disc brakes. The versatility of the frame is what attracted me to the bike. The fact that the frame has horizontal rear drop outs and is Rohloff specific but can work with a derailleur transmission if you so wish although I cannot see the point if you use a Rohloff hub. To my mind it is such a waste of the frame to use derailleur gears and rim brakes even though these could be fitted. There are also specific mounts on the rear drop out for pulling a trailer which I have used on a few occasions for towing for my Bob Yak although I prefer panniers. There are so many mounts on the frame and front fork,s one might say it has come down with measles. It can take 26" and 700c wheels as there is so much clearance in the frame and up to 3" wide tyres on the rear and slightly more on the front. It is one of if not the most versatile frames on the market excluding other frames from Surly. If I could afford a bespoke Shand, Enigma or Van Nicholas bike or frame I would have got one of those instead but I couldn't. Both Koga and Tout Terrain only sell complete bikes not frame only. It is very comfortable to ride so much so quite a few people choose to ride them RTW. But I should imagine Surly's largest market is the US and against these sales figures Euope and the rest of the world hardly figures.

I love my Troll. With the Rohloff hub and hydraulic disc brakes it is such a low maintenance bike. It carries luggage with ease. I am so glad I bought it and the Rohloff hub when I did about 4 years ago as prices have since risen significantly. Is the complete bike worth £2k? - No, not for me as I wouldn't want a bike with derailleur gears. Is the frame and fork worth £800? Tricky one. If buying now I'd wait for a second hand one to come up which might be quite a long time or get the previous year's colour in a sale but I wouldn't pay £800 for a Troll frame even with all it's versatility. It is certainly much better than the frames and bikes the OP compares it to. The frame is certainly NOT average.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Bonefishblues » 8 Feb 2019, 8:23am

Well perhaps not literally the weight of a tank. I fear sir may have literally fallen victim to the modern vernacular. :D

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 780
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Feb 2019, 4:15pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Well perhaps not literally the weight of a tank. I fear sir may have literally fallen victim to the modern vernacular. :D


Of course not Troll.
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

slowster
Posts: 649
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Surly Troll

Postby slowster » 8 Feb 2019, 10:19pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:Tout Terrain only sell complete bikes not frame only

The Tout Terrain website bike configurator includes a frameset only option. Bike Components even have a few different large versions of the Silkroad frameset in stock - https://www.bike-components.de/en/s/?keywords=silkroad.

Not cheap at €1,007, but some of the features such as the connectorless fork for a Son dynamo and an integrated stainless steel rack are things for which you would otherwise probably have to go to a specialist custom builder, which would be even more expensive.

Ivor Tingting
Posts: 780
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 9:57pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Ivor Tingting » 8 Feb 2019, 11:20pm

slowster wrote:
Ivor Tingting wrote:Tout Terrain only sell complete bikes not frame only

The Tout Terrain website bike configurator includes a frameset only option. Bike Components even have a few different large versions of the Silkroad frameset in stock - https://www.bike-components.de/en/s/?keywords=silkroad.

Not cheap at €1,007, but some of the features such as the connectorless fork for a Son dynamo and an integrated stainless steel rack are things for which you would otherwise probably have to go to a specialist custom builder, which would be even more expensive.


I stand corrected. They must have changed. Are you looking for an expedition bike then to have been browsing their website?
"Zat is ze reel prowoking qwestion Mr Paxman." - Peer Steinbruck, German Finance Minister 31/03/2009.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Surly Troll

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Feb 2019, 10:27am

I was thinking of a Troll or an Ogre a couple of years ago, but ended up getting something quite different. I would have bought frame only, which back then was about £400. The USD:GBP exchange rate has been mentioned as a factor in the huge jump in Surly prices recently, but I think there must be other factors, as the exchange rate would affect just about every brand (including non-American brands) – though it's probably true that larger manufacturers are more able to absorb exchange rate shocks. I don't know what factors could be specific to Surly...

Bmblbzzz
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Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Surly Troll

Postby Bmblbzzz » 11 Feb 2019, 10:29am

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Dollar-pound exchange rate will have exacerbated this, I expect.

Whatever the reason Surly are pricing themselves out of the European markets,which opens a door for European based manufacturers selling in Europe and the UK.

What are Surly's prices like in other European markets? Have there been similar rises there? Or even outside Europe? That might give us a clue to what's going on.

Ed: As the pound has fallen against the dollar, but the dollar has also fallen against the euro, which would make anything priced in dollars (AIUI any bike frame or component made in China is actually priced in USD) cheaper in much of Europe.

slowster
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Surly Troll

Postby slowster » 13 Feb 2019, 8:05pm

Ivor Tingting wrote:Are you looking for an expedition bike then to have been browsing their website?

Expedition bike? Pshaw! I was looking for a frame suitable for some hardcore off-road bike shopping. None of your namby pamby expedition cycling for me.

maxglide
Posts: 178
Joined: 19 May 2013, 5:35pm

Re: Surly Troll

Postby maxglide » 17 Feb 2019, 2:08pm

a bike quite literally the weight of a tank


Yes, 63,000kg for a bicycle is on the portly side.

It is certainly much better than the frames and bikes the OP compares it to.


Much better? How so? The bikes I mentioned are among the best touring bikes available in the UK.

thelawnet
Posts: 2076
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Surly Troll

Postby thelawnet » 19 Feb 2019, 10:56pm

FWIW, you can pick up a slightly scratched Troll for £1k, directly from the distributor

https://www.ison-distribution.com/engli ... rt=5DB1805

Surly do say here:

https://surlybikes.com/blog/my_2_cents

'if we aren't cheaper than custom options, don't bother, we are selling bikes made in Taiwan' (or words to that effect)