Cycle Travel Question

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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andrew_s
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by andrew_s »

You can extend a route by adding a via on the route right next to the end, then dragging the end.
francovendee
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by francovendee »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 3 Apr 2023, 12:17pm
pal wrote: 3 Apr 2023, 7:21am Hi Richard.

I'm in Greece at the moment, and find that the app doesn't show any routes (it has the maps, knows where I am, and can find the places I want to go; when I ask it to create a route, it can come up with a distance/time, but doesn't show the 'blue line' of the suggested route.)

(Until the last update, this was just something which affected routes created in the app; saved routes worked ok. But I just updated to the latest app version, and now this seems to affect both new and saved routes.)

Is this a known thing, or a bug? (No worries if it's the former, but I thought I'd ask just in case it's the latter...)
That's odd. Where in Greece are you? Could you give me a sample start/end point I can try?
francovendee wrote: 3 Apr 2023, 11:06am Is it possible to build a route by specifying the start point and the first destination then add further destinations?
Google maps lets me do 10 but I really dislike the routes it gives me.
I like to pull the line if the route suggested isn't quite where I want to go.
I hope this makes sense.
Sure - you can do about 200 via points with cycle.travel if you like! :)
I did try adding the next point but it seemed to change the route already plotted. I only tried it the one time, ages ago so I'll try again.

If I was to say, start the route in London then to Reading, then to Cardiff, then to Bath so on up to Edinburgh it would plot them in this order?

Many thanks for your patience Richard, I'm a bit of a dummy with these sort of things.
mattheus
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by mattheus »

andrew_s wrote: 3 Apr 2023, 11:19pm You can extend a route by adding a via on the route right next to the end, then dragging the end.
Yes - that's a very clunky workaround, but does the job!
LittleGreyCat
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Just noting here that I have added 2 Notes to OpenStreetMaps (because I'm not confident of directly editing) and I'm now wondering how long they take to propagate (or how I will find out if nothing happens).
Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

How quickly notes get picked up basically depends on whether there are active local mappers. It can be anything from "fixed within hours" to "still unfixed after years". If you post where this is, then maybe I or someone else could help.
LittleGreyCat wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 1:05pm Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
I can't speak for Google, but for OSM, the answer will simply be that no-one has made the edit - there aren't any magic map fairies who alight on the map and fix everything. I know of at least one English county council which keeps its cycle network updated on OSM. It would be lovely if more did so... you can always lobby them. ;)
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Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 1:05pm ...
Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
It might also be a "double edged sword" as even long term roadworks end at which point people will be posting "why doesn't it route me down ...?" as somebody has to spot the roadworks have ended, go online to update and those updates perpetuate out to OSM users (like cycle.travel).

Ian
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mjr
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 7:55pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 1:05pm ...
Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
It might also be a "double edged sword" as even long term roadworks end at which point people will be posting "why doesn't it route me down ...?" as somebody has to spot the roadworks have ended, go online to update and those updates perpetuate out to OSM users (like cycle.travel).
Not exactly. You can set end dates for roadworks, but that depends on them keeping to schedule.

Also, I think cycle.travel doesn't recalculate its potential routes every day, so it'll be a while before it'll send you that way again.

And you might be planning a route for some future date anyway.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 9:32pm
Psamathe wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 7:55pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 1:05pm ...
Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
It might also be a "double edged sword" as even long term roadworks end at which point people will be posting "why doesn't it route me down ...?" as somebody has to spot the roadworks have ended, go online to update and those updates perpetuate out to OSM users (like cycle.travel).
Not exactly. You can set end dates for roadworks, but that depends on them keeping to schedule.
...
That's a really good sensible feature I'd never realised they had. Learn something new every day.

I guess that even a scheduled end date for long term roadworks might not be perfect but better than nothing.

Ian
LittleGreyCat
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 7:43pm How quickly notes get picked up basically depends on whether there are active local mappers. It can be anything from "fixed within hours" to "still unfixed after years". If you post where this is, then maybe I or someone else could help.
LittleGreyCat wrote: 19 Apr 2023, 1:05pm Also wondering why (as this concerns long term junction works closing a cycle way and applying a diversion) why this hasn't already been updated in OSM or Google Maps.
I can't speak for Google, but for OSM, the answer will simply be that no-one has made the edit - there aren't any magic map fairies who alight on the map and fix everything. I know of at least one English county council which keeps its cycle network updated on OSM. It would be lovely if more did so... you can always lobby them. ;)
https://cycle.travel/map/journey/417943

This is a very major works - construction of a new junction on a major road to allow entry to a huge (2,000 houses) new housing estate.

https://brightwelllakes.co.uk/development/

The previous cycle way (shown on the first link) is not obvious on the low scale map supplied.
The site also says that work will commence in June 2023 for 7 weeks.
It has already been under way for several weeks and shows no sign of being almost complete.
I am assuming that the cycle way will not be reinstated but that some kind of permanent route will eventually be available.

My intent was to note the change on the map so cyclists would not be unprepared.
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simonineaston
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by simonineaston »

Also, I think cycle.travel doesn't recalculate its potential routes every day,
Correct. RF confirmed this in another recent thread. He described that it is quite an undertaking, one way & another, and so is done as & when. I don't recall him stating the exact interval - my impression is that the refresh takes place every few weeks or so.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 20 Apr 2023, 11:22am [...
The site also says that work will commence in June 2023 for 7 weeks.
It has already been under way for several weeks and shows no sign of being almost complete.
I am assuming that the cycle way will not be reinstated but that some kind of permanent route will eventually be available.

My intent was to note the change on the map so cyclists would not be unprepared.
My impression (and I'm no expert) is that updating OSM 7 weeks might cause as many problems as it solves. I don't know how often cycle.travel updates its mapping from OSM but another phone mapping system I use based on OSM does updates maybe every month or 2 so an OSNM change might take a month to ripple out to devices (and show as closed) and after it's finished maybe another month to ripple out again to show as open - so potentially "wrong" for 2 months (against a scheduled construction time < 2 months).

I suspect that my non-cycle.travel phone mapping app does not include scheduled roadwork completion time to locally update on the phone.

Road closures can be "challenging". At the moment around me loads and load of local roads are closed for 1-10 days with diversions overlapping diversions. Often a road closed sign is nothing more than a sign (no closure, no roadworks). Often follow the diversion and you'll end-up miles away as you merge into a different diversion (with no identification as different), then into another. Complete mess but they are all so brief that thee is no way OSM or any mapping system could do anything.

Ian
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

simonineaston wrote: 20 Apr 2023, 11:43am
Also, I think cycle.travel doesn't recalculate its potential routes every day,
Correct. RF confirmed this in another recent thread. He described that it is quite an undertaking, one way & another, and so is done as & when. I don't recall him stating the exact interval - my impression is that the refresh takes place every few weeks or so.
Yep. I aim for every month but sometimes it takes longer because I'm working on an algorithm/weighting update or similar.

It takes about four days to update the maps for the website, the maps for the app, and the routing (the three processes are interlinked). In theory it's a matter of me issuing a handful of commands and the rather large server a few metres to my left does the rest. In practice there's often something that comes up requiring intervention, so I can't leave it completely unattended!
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LittleGreyCat
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 20 Apr 2023, 12:03pm
simonineaston wrote: 20 Apr 2023, 11:43am
Also, I think cycle.travel doesn't recalculate its potential routes every day,
Correct. RF confirmed this in another recent thread. He described that it is quite an undertaking, one way & another, and so is done as & when. I don't recall him stating the exact interval - my impression is that the refresh takes place every few weeks or so.
Yep. I aim for every month but sometimes it takes longer because I'm working on an algorithm/weighting update or similar.

It takes about four days to update the maps for the website, the maps for the app, and the routing (the three processes are interlinked). In theory it's a matter of me issuing a handful of commands and the rather large server a few metres to my left does the rest. In practice there's often something that comes up requiring intervention, so I can't leave it completely unattended!
On the subject of a "rather large server", what is the rough specification?

I know that you are financially constrained but not clear if it is a £500, £5,000 or £50,000 server.

Just idle speculation on how to speed up the service.

Electricity, of course, is another issue.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

It's 144GB RAM; plus a bunch of storage (spinning rust) for the various data files; plus an SSD as temporary workspace for the mobile (vector) map generation.

Running on a weekly update cycle would basically mean moving from the server sitting in this room to one rented from a company like Hetzner, like the servers that c.t runs on. Hetzner don't have an off-the-shelf model with those specs, so it would mean taking an AX161 (€143/month) and speccing it up a bit further - probably work out about €200/month.

It's not a massive priority for me to be honest - even if money was no object, it would take a whole bunch of time to set up the new server and adapt the processes to run on it, and people keep asking me to spend that time on an Android app instead. :D
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simonineaston
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by simonineaston »

That's interesting - my media server contains, roughly, 450Gb of music files on an hdd and about 25Gb of system files on the ssd. But that's been built up over 25 years and I don't have to refresh it!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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