Cycle Travel Question

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Richard Fairhurst
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Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

brianleach wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 2:12pm Will the Archies web page closure affect your site Richard???
I think that's a "we'll see". It shouldn't immediately affect it as cycle.travel takes a monthly download from Archies, so I can just continue with the final dump. As time goes on, though, that data will become more out-of-date.

When I first added the Archies data, it was much better than that available in OpenStreetMap. My sense is that in the intervening years OSM has gone a long way to catching up in campsite locations, if not in metadata (phone numbers/opening times). Certainly all the campsites near me are on OSM now and I'm sure that'll be the case in the German-speaking countries too. Whether it's true further afield, who knows, but I'll spend some time looking into it.
RickH wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 6:26pm A probably mainly Northern-related question. I noticed a few, mainly short, stretches I often cycle, & get included in routes I plan, being marked as unpaved & it seems to be because they have the surface labelled as "cobbles". Strictly speaking they are setts - square or rectangular flat(ish) topped stones - but further delving shows that even Le Mans Crescent in the centre of Bolton, which has the surface marked as "setts", is marked as unpaved. Is this a deliberate choice in Cycle.travel or just a bit of "collateral damage"? I know the term "cobbles" can convey a wide range of meanings.
Exactly the latter! They cover a multitude of sins. I've had suggestions from German cyclists that c.t is too lenient on cobbles which I guess goes to prove you can't please everyone.

Internally, c.t's weightings are much more subtle than just paved vs unpaved - so it has different scores for "sett", "cobblestone", "unhewn_cobblestone" and "cobblestone:flattened", all of which can be found in OSM. One of the problems is indeed that OSM mappers often record setts as "cobblestone" which gets the lower ranking. I hope that in time the tagging will get more consistent.
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Jdsk »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 9:58pm
brianleach wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 2:12pm Will the Archies web page closure affect your site Richard???
I think that's a "we'll see". It shouldn't immediately affect it as cycle.travel takes a monthly download from Archies, so I can just continue with the final dump. As time goes on, though, that data will become more out-of-date.

When I first added the Archies data, it was much better than that available in OpenStreetMap. My sense is that in the intervening years OSM has gone a long way to catching up in campsite locations, if not in metadata (phone numbers/opening times). Certainly all the campsites near me are on OSM now and I'm sure that'll be the case in the German-speaking countries too. Whether it's true further afield, who knows, but I'll spend some time looking into it.
Reply from Archie:
viewtopic.php?p=1720259#p1720259

Jonathan
brianleach
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by brianleach »

Thanks Richard and Jonathan. Perhaps I jumped the gun rather. As you say Richard it is a wait and see situation.
Boring_Username
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Boring_Username »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 6:52pm Richard will be along to give you an answer soon but prompted by your post, I had a look and eg Welsh Back in Bristol is also marked as unpaved:
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Angstrom
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Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Angstrom »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 9:58pm
brianleach wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 2:12pm Will the Archies web page closure affect your site Richard???
I think that's a "we'll see". It shouldn't immediately affect it as cycle.travel takes a monthly download from Archies, so I can just continue with the final dump. As time goes on, though, that data will become more out-of-date.

When I first added the Archies data, it was much better than that available in OpenStreetMap. My sense is that in the intervening years OSM has gone a long way to catching up in campsite locations, if not in metadata (phone numbers/opening times). Certainly all the campsites near me are on OSM now and I'm sure that'll be the case in the German-speaking countries too. Whether it's true further afield, who knows, but I'll spend some time looking into it.
I agree. Over the winter I could look into this for the French data set if you could extract some OSM data for me to compare with (and if you need some help in this task, depending on how you plan to test).
"A cycle tourist doesn't have a track record. Just memories". Jean Taboureau
Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Psamathe »

Angstrom wrote: 3 Sep 2022, 3:09pm
Richard Fairhurst wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 9:58pm
brianleach wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 2:12pm Will the Archies web page closure affect your site Richard???
I think that's a "we'll see". It shouldn't immediately affect it as cycle.travel takes a monthly download from Archies, so I can just continue with the final dump. As time goes on, though, that data will become more out-of-date.

When I first added the Archies data, it was much better than that available in OpenStreetMap. My sense is that in the intervening years OSM has gone a long way to catching up in campsite locations, if not in metadata (phone numbers/opening times). Certainly all the campsites near me are on OSM now and I'm sure that'll be the case in the German-speaking countries too. Whether it's true further afield, who knows, but I'll spend some time looking into it.
I agree. Over the winter I could look into this for the French data set if you could extract some OSM data for me to compare with (and if you need some help in this task, depending on how you plan to test).
One big shortcoming in Archies (for me) was that each entry had no website. Except when obvious eg "Municipal" you normally have no idea if it's a small quiet campsite (eg NL mini-camping) or a big holiday park aimed at families wanting a chalet for a week with their kids. I often end-up copy and paste the name into Google and then check it's the correct site ... A web link on the entry would make things much easier, faster, less power/data used, etc.

Ian
Angstrom
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Angstrom »

Psamathe wrote: 3 Sep 2022, 3:25pm One big shortcoming in Archies (for me) was that each entry had no website. Except when obvious eg "Municipal" you normally have no idea if it's a small quiet campsite (eg NL mini-camping) or a big holiday park aimed at families wanting a chalet for a week with their kids. I often end-up copy and paste the name into Google and then check it's the correct site ... A web link on the entry would make things much easier, faster, less power/data used, etc.

Ian
100% agreed.
"A cycle tourist doesn't have a track record. Just memories". Jean Taboureau
Slowroad
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Slowroad »

Psamathe wrote: ↑3 Sep 2022, 3:25pm
One big shortcoming in Archies (for me) was that each entry had no website. Except when obvious eg "Municipal" you normally have no idea if it's a small quiet campsite (eg NL mini-camping) or a big holiday park aimed at families wanting a chalet for a week with their kids. I often end-up copy and paste the name into Google and then check it's the correct site ... A web link on the entry would make things much easier, faster, less power/data used, etc.

Ian

100% agreed.
Yes, agree too. I've given up using the campsite search on cycle.travel because of that, I use www.ukcampsite.co.uk in parallel. Also I came across several campsites from Archie's on cycle.travel which were simply in the wrong place - like 100's of miles away!
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Both can be inaccurate.
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Slowroad wrote: 5 Sep 2022, 9:05am Yes, agree too. I've given up using the campsite search on cycle.travel because of that, I use www.ukcampsite.co.uk in parallel. Also I came across several campsites from Archie's on cycle.travel which were simply in the wrong place - like 100's of miles away!
That was a mistake in one release of the Archies data - I think some rows in the source spreadsheet got shifted by one. It seems to be fixed now.
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Hows your
app going?
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)
st599_uk
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by st599_uk »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 31 Aug 2022, 9:58pm
Exactly the latter! They cover a multitude of sins. I've had suggestions from German cyclists that c.t is too lenient on cobbles which I guess goes to prove you can't please everyone.

Internally, c.t's weightings are much more subtle than just paved vs unpaved - so it has different scores for "sett", "cobblestone", "unhewn_cobblestone" and "cobblestone:flattened", all of which can be found in OSM. One of the problems is indeed that OSM mappers often record setts as "cobblestone" which gets the lower ranking. I hope that in time the tagging will get more consistent.
Having ridden some German cobblestones just off EV15, I can see what they mean.
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Vantage
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Vantage »

This happened before but I can't remember how I fixed it.

Sometime today my cycle.travel map and profile pages started missing bits. The upload gpx thing and all clickibles for adjusting avg speed, unit of measure etc have disappeared on my Microsoft win 7 pc. My android phone still has these options available. I've tried deleting my browser history, log ins and passwords. Did a system restore. Nothing has worked.

If anyone can help, I'd very much appreciate it.
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PXL_20221024_210838946.jpg
Bill


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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

Have you accidentally changed your browser text size? This can sometimes result in the text being too big and causing things to fall off the edge of the display.
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Vantage
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Post by Vantage »

It's normally set to 150% screen enlargement and a further 110% browser zoom and usually is fine. Even with everything set to bog standard resolution and zoom levels the clickibles and upload button are gone.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
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