Cycling UK Forum

mjr wrote:He trolled, twice, presumably hoping to get some attention, and lost his job.

Where is the "trolling" aspect of this?
(I'm pretty sure I understand the term, it's ben around for years, but people do sometimes use it in odd ways ...)

He has explained the intent of his tweet - what do you know about the intent that was different? And in what way does it qualify as "trolling"?

pwa wrote: I see him as someone who has made a daft mistake, you see him as a racist.

It seems to me that this is may be the heart of this debate - many people (including several on this thread) seem to think these are the same thing.

If I write something without noting it's possible overtones - perhaps because I see Fleetwood Mac guitar solos as a safe subject - and then someone more sensitive/aware/"quick-witted" points out some negative overtones, then it is for the reader to interpret:

- insensitive?
- unwise?
- racist??

Surely an act can be in categories 1 and 2, yet not 3?

Oh dear, and again he has apologised, and instead of doing so unreservedly he's qualified his remarks. Even worse, it's now all about him, and we're supposed to feel sorry because he's had "the worst day" of his life.

I had a little bit of sympathy at first, but each time he opens his mouth he's gleefully digging himself in deeper.

AFAICS he posted a very offence tweet,realised he'd made a huge error.
He then was sacked and tried to defend his actions .

Why,on the day that this child is leaving hosptal, post such a tweet?

I just don't get the man's logic let alone his potential for being labelled a racist,even if he isn't,if didnt know Megan Markal was of mixed race I don't know what planet he's been on for the past couple of years!
Add to that the resurgence of racism in football and the push to stop it,as a football pundit of sorts AIUI what was going through his tiny little mind?

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Oh dear, and again he has apologised, and instead of doing so unreservedly he's qualified his remarks. Even worse, it's now all about him, and we're supposed to feel sorry because he's had "the worst day" of his life.

I had a little bit of sympathy at first, but each time he opens his mouth he's gleefully digging himself in deeper.

Rubbish - you prejudged him, and will clearly never have anything nice to say on the subject.

I hereby apologise to you - on behalf of Danny and all his listeners - for all the time you've wasted expressing your feelings for this man whom you've never met. And I mean that unreservedly. despite this NOT being the worst day in my life - it's going quite well, thanks!

Rubbish?

I actually sided with him at first, so can you please explain how I prejudged him?

It's his behaviour subsequent to the tweet that I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with.

And can you please refrain from the unnecessary use if capital letters to emphasise particular words? I'm dyslexic, and all you do is make it harder for me to read what you've written, which rather negates any effort you've just made to emphasise a word in the first instance. Aside from which, we're not stupid and can actually read, so such emphasis , unintentionally I'm sure, comes across as patronising.

mattheus wrote: - on behalf of Danny and all his listeners -

You've commented on a couple of other posters' use of words so I'll mention that I presume that - for the time being at least - these are former listeners.

mattheus wrote:

mjr wrote:He trolled, twice, presumably hoping to get some attention, and lost his job.

Where is the "trolling" aspect of this?
(I'm pretty sure I understand the term, it's ben around for years, but people do sometimes use it in odd ways ...)

He has explained the intent of his tweet - what do you know about the intent that was different? And in what way does it qualify as "trolling"?

Even if the intent was only to liken a royal child to a circus act like he said, that's obviously going to offend some monarchists, isn't it?

The second trolling was calling those who complained diseased. That was always likely to offend some, wasn't it?

pwa wrote:

Cugel wrote:

pwa wrote:I imagine the chimp as a child idea was based on the traditional notion that the royals are inbred, which is itself a bit bigoted but we have tolerated that line of banter because the group it picks on are in other ways privileged.

But Baker was not thinking clearly or he would have seen the "black person=monkey" interpretation, which I very much doubt is what he intended. Perils of the internet. Think of something, put it out there, then think again and wish you had thought more clearly before pressing the button. He is a professional, though, and should be more careful than that.

Is it a problem that we are calling an ape a monkey?

Are you defenders of the creature so naive? Baker knew exactly what he was saying and it's implications, context and likely effects. He was, as he has often done before, appealing to "the lads" with his mainsteam "lookitme, a proper footbal fan" schtick.

Now he has the publicity he craves, enhancing his footie-boy image. He will have another lucrative job soon, perhaps with one of the various right-wing newspap rags or other such media horns.

Of course, I could be wrong and he could just be very stupid. Ha!

Cugel

I see him as someone who has made a daft mistake, you see him as a racist. I could be wrong and you could be right, but you seem to have listened to more of his output than me. Have you any specific examples of racism in things he has said in the past? Or is it just that he is associated with football and you associate football with racism? I know there is racism in football, but there is also anti-racism.

I suspect he made a foolish "football fan joke" that he knew would appeal to "the lads", in an unguarded moment. I suspect that the nature of "the joke" indicates at least an endemic racism present in many of us British. I suspect that he knew his "joke" would cause a media frenzy and thus publicity (all of which is good to such slebs) but that he underestimated the degree of frenzy it would cause.

One major cultural aspect of football support in Britain (and elsewhere) is it's use as a vehicle for nationalism, tribalism and racism. This aspect is domnant - far more dominant than any anti-racist element, as anyone can hear in the football chants. There aren't any football chants heard that are anti-racist, are there? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This sort of casual racism is on the rise once more in Britiain, emboldened by the B-farce, the advent of people like Trump and Farage and the catalyst of various social media channels, from twitter and facebook to 4chan.

****
I may be wrong. There will be several journalists a-digging-oh right now into the life and times of Danny Baker. I really hope I am wrong but ........

Cugel

Cugel wrote: ... I suspect he made a foolish "football fan joke" that he knew would appeal to "the lads", in an unguarded moment. I suspect that the nature of "the joke" indicates at least an endemic racism present in many of us British. I suspect that he knew his "joke" would cause a media frenzy and thus publicity (all of which is good to such slebs) but that he underestimated the degree of frenzy it would cause. ... l

I assume that it's one of the risks of the immediacy of social media. As I posted earlier, I used to read his occasional Saturday morning column in the Times sports section. I used to be disappointed when it wasn't in. That was before the "bonfire of subs" * AFAIK, it's usual for "live" TV and radio to have a built-in delay of a couple of minute between a loop recording and transmission so if eg a swear word slips out, it can be stopped from being heard by the public. With social media, those safety nets are missing and it's there for all to see. ie I think he's got too used to others looking out for him in his livelier moments.


* Much modern written media content is submitted directly by the author, checked only by spellchecker etc., then cropped for length. Once upon a time, sub-editors looked more closely for howlers of every sort.

Cugel wrote:

pwa wrote:

Cugel wrote:
Are you defenders of the creature so naive? Baker knew exactly what he was saying and it's implications, context and likely effects. He was, as he has often done before, appealing to "the lads" with his mainsteam "lookitme, a proper footbal fan" schtick.

Now he has the publicity he craves, enhancing his footie-boy image. He will have another lucrative job soon, perhaps with one of the various right-wing newspap rags or other such media horns.

Of course, I could be wrong and he could just be very stupid. Ha!

Cugel

I see him as someone who has made a daft mistake, you see him as a racist. I could be wrong and you could be right, but you seem to have listened to more of his output than me. Have you any specific examples of racism in things he has said in the past? Or is it just that he is associated with football and you associate football with racism? I know there is racism in football, but there is also anti-racism.

I suspect he made a foolish "football fan joke" that he knew would appeal to "the lads", in an unguarded moment. I suspect that the nature of "the joke" indicates at least an endemic racism present in many of us British. I suspect that he knew his "joke" would cause a media frenzy and thus publicity (all of which is good to such slebs) but that he underestimated the degree of frenzy it would cause.

One major cultural aspect of football support in Britain (and elsewhere) is it's use as a vehicle for nationalism, tribalism and racism. This aspect is domnant - far more dominant than any anti-racist element, as anyone can hear in the football chants. There aren't any football chants heard that are anti-racist, are there? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This sort of casual racism is on the rise once more in Britiain, emboldened by the B-farce, the advent of people like Trump and Farage and the catalyst of various social media channels, from twitter and facebook to 4chan.

****
I may be wrong. There will be several journalists a-digging-oh right now into the life and times of Danny Baker. I really hope I am wrong but ........

Cugel

You are wrong. Baker is on record as a Labour party activist and a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn.

pete75 wrote:

Cugel wrote:

pwa wrote:I see him as someone who has made a daft mistake, you see him as a racist. I could be wrong and you could be right, but you seem to have listened to more of his output than me. Have you any specific examples of racism in things he has said in the past? Or is it just that he is associated with football and you associate football with racism? I know there is racism in football, but there is also anti-racism.

I suspect he made a foolish "football fan joke" that he knew would appeal to "the lads", in an unguarded moment. I suspect that the nature of "the joke" indicates at least an endemic racism present in many of us British. I suspect that he knew his "joke" would cause a media frenzy and thus publicity (all of which is good to such slebs) but that he underestimated the degree of frenzy it would cause.

One major cultural aspect of football support in Britain (and elsewhere) is it's use as a vehicle for nationalism, tribalism and racism. This aspect is domnant - far more dominant than any anti-racist element, as anyone can hear in the football chants. There aren't any football chants heard that are anti-racist, are there? Correct me if I'm wrong.

This sort of casual racism is on the rise once more in Britiain, emboldened by the B-farce, the advent of people like Trump and Farage and the catalyst of various social media channels, from twitter and facebook to 4chan.

****
I may be wrong. There will be several journalists a-digging-oh right now into the life and times of Danny Baker. I really hope I am wrong but ........

Cugel

You are wrong. Baker is on record as a Labour party activist and a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn.

And the Labour Party, along with Jezza, is inherently free of all prejudice, racism and other naughty attitudes towards the various whipping toys....?

Cugel

If a person makes a racist remark, does that automatically brand them a racist for life? Yet to come across a person who has never made a racist or perceived racist comment, including the most zealot fire breathing anti racists who are often the worst offenders. I would think a good buttock kicking and the public embarrassment that will follow for a long time is just punishment, I think any future knighthood is off the cards too.

I found his Saturday Radio 5 morning show mediocre and would only listen if there was nothing better on R4extra. He'll probably miss his audience more than they'll miss him.

I think he is genuine enough when he said that he didn't see 'that' connotation of his posted image but after that he was toast and it's for the best.

pete75 wrote:

mattheus wrote:

pete75 wrote:He doesn't help his case by inferring that anyone who points out racism is mentally ill.

Er .. no. It's YOU that has inferred this. You should probably get a dictionary before joining in the next indignation flash-mob my friend!

The inference from him saying racial connotations "never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased" is that he regards anyone who did see it as racist and said the same had a "diseased mind" ie is mentally ill.

What makes his comments even stranger is that he lives in a very multicultural part of London as well.