Lidless rider on TV!

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Mike Sales
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Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Jul 2019, 7:55pm

I'm watching Walking Britain's Lost Railways. The presenter is riding with an interviewee who is bareheaded. They are on a Sustrans converted railway line it's true, but nevertheless it is rather daring.

reohn2
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jul 2019, 7:58pm

Ooo!
Dicing with death........
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I cycle therefore I am.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Jul 2019, 8:06pm

I expect that the health and safety guys had issued him with a lifejacket, so all's well.

(Am I the only one who has noticed the Beeb's predilection for them?)

Mike Sales
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Jul 2019, 8:17pm

Bonefishblues wrote:I expect that the health and safety guys had issued him with a lifejacket, so all's well.

(Am I the only one who has noticed the Beeb's predilection for them?)


You are not. I do a bit of boating, and feel about LJs much as I do about bike helmets.
If there is a puddle within shot all on screen must wear the things.

brynpoeth
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Jul 2019, 7:32am

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I expect that the health and safety guys had issued him with a lifejacket, so all's well.

(Am I the only one who has noticed the Beeb's predilection for them?)


You are not. I do a bit of boating, and feel about LJs much as I do about bike helmets.
If there is a puddle within shot all on screen must wear the things.

Please to explain a bit more about lifejackets (floating jackets?), diolch
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Mike Sales
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Jul 2019, 10:35am

brynpoeth wrote:You are not. I do a bit of boating, and feel about LJs much as I do about bike helmets.
If there is a puddle within shot all on screen must wear the things.

Please to explain a bit more about lifejackets (floating jackets?), diolch[/quote]

Some of my uneasiness about LJs is for the same reasons as I dislike helmets.
Risk compensation is an obvious one. If you embark on a course of action trusting that an LJ will keep you safe you may be led into a danger that an LJ fails to eliminate.
When I see TV performers wearing LJs whenever they are in sight of water I am reminded of the automatic wearing of plastic hats whenever a presenter throws a leg over a cross bar. There is no assessment of the real size of the risk. Sitting on a narrow boat at 3 mph in a canal a few feet wide and shallow enough to stand up in, does not demand an LJ, in my view.
When I am told by "authorities" that I must wear one I feel much as I do when I am told to wear a helmet. I will assess the risk, thank you.
Real safety is in the head, it depends on one's own judgement and actions, not on whether you wear a particular emblem of obedience to those who think that they can make us all "safe", just so long as you do what they say.

brynpoeth
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Jul 2019, 10:40am

Right about LJs on canals surely, wearing one could be an impediment, makes one bigger and less manoeuvrable
Except for kiddies maybe?
Different in sailing races maybe where one leans right out with only ones toes still on board
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Mike Sales
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Jul 2019, 10:43am

brynpoeth wrote:Right about LJs on canals surely, wearing one could be an impediment, makes one bigger and less manoeuvrable
Except for kiddies maybe?
Different in sailing races maybe where one leans right out with only ones toes still on board


One can make one's own judgement about that.

brynpoeth
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Jul 2019, 10:47am

Are there parallels, is there a lobby for compulsory LJs?
Our cricket boys plan to be world champions tomorrow, most do not wear h****s
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Mike Sales
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Jul 2019, 10:51am

brynpoeth wrote:Are there parallels, is there a lobby for compulsory LJs?
Our cricket boys plan to be world champions tomorrow, most do not wear h****s


I don't think there is a lobby, though I have heard individuals calling for compulsion.

A difference between helmets and LJs is that most of the danger lids are supposed to protect against is imposed by other people (who are often telling us to wear them!), whereas the sea is impersonal and inexorable.
Some of the danger is a result of our own carelessness in both cases.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Bonefishblues » 13 Jul 2019, 11:50am

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I expect that the health and safety guys had issued him with a lifejacket, so all's well.

(Am I the only one who has noticed the Beeb's predilection for them?)


You are not. I do a bit of boating, and feel about LJs much as I do about bike helmets.
If there is a puddle within shot all on screen must wear the things.

A helmet, a lifejacket and a poppy are standard issue as far as I can see.

firedfromthecircus
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby firedfromthecircus » 13 Jul 2019, 1:36pm

Bonefishblues wrote:A helmet, a lifejacket and a poppy are standard issue as far as I can see.


I wonder which one would cause the largest volume of coruscating correspondence were it to be lacking from a presenters person?

Bonefishblues
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Bonefishblues » 13 Jul 2019, 1:40pm

firedfromthecircus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:A helmet, a lifejacket and a poppy are standard issue as far as I can see.


I wonder which one would cause the largest volume of coruscating correspondence were it to be lacking from a presenters person?

Poppy, no question IMHO

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Pastychomper
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Pastychomper » 15 Jul 2019, 1:06pm

One difference between halmits and life-jackets is that LJs have been shown to increase the chances of survival in many of the situations for which they are recommended. I do agree that it should be down to the individual to assess the risk, even so.

Like halmits, LJs occasionally make a bad situation worse, too. I remember an anecdote on the telly-telly bunkum box in which a canoeist became trapped in the eddy under a weir, and couldn't escape or breathe until he'd removed his LJ. The drop in buoyancy let him sink into the stream of water that was moving, er, downstream, so he could surface somewhere calmer. I gather the risks around weirs are well known among canoeists and kayakers, so presumably their LJs are easy enough to remove while spinning underwater.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Lidless rider on TV!

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Jul 2019, 1:29pm

Pastychomper wrote:One difference between halmits and life-jackets is that LJs have been shown to increase the chances of survival in many of the situations for which they are recommended.


Have they been shown to increase chances of survival? I have never seen any population level studies of LJs of the sort which show no helmet benefit.
It is easy to show that a helmet can absorb impact, or an LJ keep you afloat. It is less easy to tell whether mass wearing has any impact on casualty rates.
It is my impression that the evidence for LJs does not really go any further than people making the same assumptions as they do for helmets.
I just have a deep scepticism when "experts" tell me I should wear this or that and then I will be safe.
I prefer to keep one hand for the ship and one for myself.
Perhaps I have missed something and you will point me towards the studies which I am ignorant of.
One of the pleasures of going on the sea is that I am dealing with something with inherent danger, something I am deeply scared of, but using my own skills and judgement to cope with.
I value my autonomy and enjoy exercising it.