Living without owning an internal combustion engine

[reohn2]

To ride an E-bike motorised bicycle is totally at odds with traditional cycling.

It's not at odds with getting people to drive less, and reducing the impact of car use.
..

Ivor is right again, lots of young fit people (too young to drive even) use e-bikes to get to work when they could use a real cycle
I must interrogate them, whether they upgraded from four wheels or downgraded from real bikes

Those illegitimate users of pedelecs could use a pogo stick for daily transport if they really wanted to cut down on Co2,alternatively if they didn't give a monkey's they could use a 4.2l Range Rover

[reohn2]

I was reading I think was a Guardian article or maybe BBC News item about Harry saying he wont have more than 2 sprogs. The article went to discuss that having kids over their life time created more CO2 than transport

I'm the father of three daughters,they have given birth to nine children between them(we lost one granddaughter aged 19),the two eldest aged 27 and 25 have given birth to three children between them.The other seven grandchildren aren't of child bearing age yet.
On a global scale if you want to look at the real problem there it is.

[Mick F]

...................... Harry saying he wont have more than 2 sprogs.

Pedant alert!

A sprog is the son of a stoker. Prince Harry ain't no stoker!

[Brucey]

It's probably just unfortunate phrasing, but whenever I read posts like Brucey's they come across as an excuse for car use. A variation on two-wrongs-making-a-right.

"If all this other pollution is going on, why should I reduce my car use?" seems to be the message.

its easy to lose perspective over this; most people's impact on the environment is mostly caused by things other than car use per se. That cars exist and most folk use them as they do is bad of course but is merely a symptom of a much deeper underlying problem that is very easy to ignore.

cheers

[cotterpins]

I've just given up driving. I've never wasted so much of my time hanging around waiting and travelling by public transport. Instead of just popping into town it's a case of having a day out, so to speak! We are fortunate in that we have a village shop/PO, and a village butcher. Free bus travel also helps to keep town centres alive. If it wasn't for free travel the town centre would be completely dead until the lunch time hour.
They say town centres are dying . . . take away free travel, and, you'll really see dead town centres. Free park and ride helps also, but mainly commuters!

[mattheus]

It's probably just unfortunate phrasing, but whenever I read posts like Brucey's they come across as an excuse for car use. A variation on two-wrongs-making-a-right.

"If all this other pollution is going on, why should I reduce my car use?" seems to be the message.

its easy to lose perspective over this; most people's impact on the environment is mostly caused by things other than car use per se. That cars exist and most folk use them as they do is bad of course but is merely a symptom of a much deeper underlying problem that is very easy to ignore.

cheers

OK, so can you please be explicit:
- what exactly is being ignored, and
- why is this being encouraged by efforts to reduce car use.


(p.s. accusing others of losing perspective due to their ignorance can come over as somewhat patronising ... )

[Brucey]

if you read my post (from last night/earlier today) it should be clear.

cheers

[Oldjohnw]

Car use is major, but the whole economy is predicated on consumerism. This applies to clothes, holidays, TVs, cars, phones and, dare I say, bikes. We need the latest new technology. And jobs depend on it.

We need a fundamental rethink. But having a go at people doing their best is not the way.

[The utility cyclist]

I've gone without using my car for 21 months now though I've borrowed my sons car three times in that period, one was driving into London with my grandson for a rugby match that would cost us 5 times by public transport (it was 30 miles away), he's also not all that great in certain enclosed spaces so tubes are a real hit or miss affair and it was a weekday evening match too. The other two were a late night party some 17 miles away and one was collecting a bike to do up for a friend. I don't feel guilty at all over those trips.

Travelling Westward is an absolute bind, getting to a friend in Bucks is significantly more expensive by train and hugely more time consuming for what is a 36 mile journey, I don't want to cycle it as we go out for a couple of jars/food on the Sat and Sunday is for a nice ride out, the ride is feasible but some of it is just really unpleasant, narrow high speed roads which give a greater feeling of trepidation than cycling on a 70mph dual. I don't then want to follow up a 40+ mile ride with that as the return, a) because I'll already be a bit fagged and 2nd I don't want to spoil the day with what I know will be the usual crud. The route in itself is lovely but it's just spoilt by the fact you're having to share it with far too many @@@@@@@@s (I think that's the right amount of characters to spell buttock-orifices

I travel along the East coast line and have done so for quite a few years now with the bike, it's all just become too much of a hassle, it was cheaper but prices have risen quite a bit and you really do have to pick and choose to get the best price, I also like to on occasion drive cycle if you want to call it that, that is to drive to a location, set the car down and then spider out and/or go further afield and leave the car for a couple of nights at original digs. cycle touring is ace, maybe I should revisit it in its purist form but there are days when my condition simply lets me down and I'm totally frazzled before I've done anything, it's also difficult with food/tum so that's yet another thing that is ridiculously difficult and makes things just really ugly and depressing when it kicks off!

I thought about e-assist but there's nothing that can carry me, a normal bike + luggage that fits in with what I want (I've looked extensively) A Sinclair Iris that is elongated to fit stuff around the back might work. it would obviously take much longer than by car or train but if it was doable in 6-7 hours (av. moving speed 26-22mph) without caning myself then I could take that. I'm not really interested in an e-assist plus trailer tbh, it just doesn't appeal.

[Cyril Haearn]

Care must be taken when condemning the use of a car, somethings are impossible or extremely difficult without one.
I guess I could move to a large town but I'm not doing that just to avoid using a car the small amount we do.
Until you know the full details nobody should criticise others use of a car.

Hear hear!

What a queer statement I cannae know all about you. Trying to introduce censorship?

I have learnt a lot here, had disagreements, surely one can accept that, laugh quite a bit too
Apparently many other fora are much nastier

[Cyril Haearn]

It's not at odds with getting people to drive less, and reducing the impact of car use.
..

Ivor is right again, lots of young fit people (too young to drive even) use e-bikes to get to work when they could use a real cycle
I must interrogate them, whether they upgraded from four wheels or downgraded from real bikes

Those illegitimate users of pedelecs could use a pogo stick for daily transport if they really wanted to cut down on Co2,alternatively if they didn't give a monkey's they could use a 4.2l Range Rover

Young fit people who could ride real bikes spend much more cash on e-bikes for short journeys in a flat town. Increases use of resources, emissions monetary costs etc, -1
Increases speed & danger. Apparently many young people do not bother learning to drive, their using e-bikes is almost as bad as driving

Any figures for how many upgrade from car to e-bike? I fear most e-bike users downgrade from real bikes. I do not want more cyclists here, there are too many already

[reohn2]

......... I do not want more cyclists here, there are too many already

What is it that you actually do want?
Put everyone of those cyclists and Ecyclists in cars and pollution will increase exponentially,gridlock will ensue and there'll to be a need a lot more space to park both at destination and at home.

TBH your attitude beggars belief,and whilst you're not a minute at advising other people to move elsewhere to suit their lifestyle or work travel,if where you live(somewhere in Germany I believe)doesn't suit your particular needs then move to where it does and take a bit of your own advice!

[Cyril Haearn]

......... I do not want more cyclists here, there are too many already

What is it that you actually do want?
Put everyone of those cyclists and Ecyclists in cars and pollution will increase exponentially,gridlock will ensue and there'll to be a need a lot more space to park both at destination and at home.

TBH your attitude beggars belief,and whilst you're not a minute at advising other people to move elsewhere to suit their lifestyle or work travel,if where you live(somewhere in Germany I believe)doesn't suit your particular needs then move to where it does and take a bit of your own advice!

I want much less travel, less motoring especially but I do not want vast numbers of mortons switching to cycling

Where I cycle there are often too many cyclists going too fast on narrow paths, especially those nasty powered e-bikes

I would sort of prefer them to continue using their cars, rather than troubling me! Or they could get the bus, or best of all, stay at home

I shall be retiring soon and moving to a cycling paradise

[reohn2]

I want much less travel,

Dream on.

less motoring especially

If you own a car,you're part of the problem.

But if lots of drivers cycled instead that would be bad, until the roads are rebuilt

.
Oh dear poor you

Maybe they should take the bus

And if everyone did that you'd probably be complaining about too many people on the buses

Where I cycle there are often too many cyclists going too fast on narrow paths, especially those nasty powered e-bikes

I feel sorry for your predicament,live with it or move.

I would prefer them to continue using their cars, rather than troubling me!

Ah! I see,why don't you take some of your own advice and move to a less populated part of the planet,there's many spracely inhabited areas in the world you could move to where people won't trouble you .

I shall be retiring soon and moving to a cycling paradise

Don't,you'll spoil it by over populating it

[Cyril Haearn]

Do we disagree on everything? I almost hope so!

I do not want people who could use real bikes switching to e-bikes

I do not own a vehicle, gave mine up recently, plan never to own one again!