The "Royals" Thread

[Jdsk]

... I can well imagine individual nations that currently form part of the U.K. morphing to become simultaneously independent states, members of the EU and continuing to accept the monarchy, especially given that it is a dual monarchy as between England and Scotland anyway. James VI and I, and all that.

Yes, it could play out in that sequence.

Prior fragmentation would make it harder for England to Rejoin the EU by any democratic process.

But the nature of the dual monarchy makes it easier for England and Scotland to go different ways, as in 1649. (I don't think that this will be a significant part of the process in practice.)

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

Yes, all this Royalty stuff is a bit absurd but it gives a lot of people here a bit of pleasure and draws in visitors from across the world.

Can you imagine folk toasting Usula Von de Leyon with hosts of EU flags. In Britain we are prodimently nationalists thats why Brexit happened.

When the Queen passes on I expect the Royals will cut it down to a sustainable size and chuck out a lot of the privelige and other expensive nonsense .

I think Nationist Brits enjoy sticking up two fingers to bland mediocrity

Al

It's definitely true that binning your Royal family ruins tourism. Just ask the French.

And no, there's absolutely no way anyone would ever celebrate joining the EU, as a quick tour of Kyiv will demonstrate. Likewise the obvious link of anti EU sentiment to nationalism*

Very best of wishes with the cutting it down to size stuff. It's as likely as the fishing revival you predicted from Brexit. Still, we can hope.

* you may have mixed up "nationalism" and "prejudice" here, of course. I can help- they're not synonymous.

[al_yrpal]

We are a democracy and every nation in the UK and the Commonwealth can do its own thing which is as it should be.

I'm not sure what you mean by "every nation in the UK" but the 2016 referendum clearly showed that the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland couldn't do what they clearly wanted.


Jonathan

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland ..... simple? They are presently in a Union. If they want to leave that Union I expect they will soon be able to leave if thats what they want.....hopefully.

I think others may be guilty of predudice, its the same with illfounded accusations of racism.

Al

[Jdsk]

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland .....

In what sense is Northern Ireland a nation?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

We are a democracy and every nation in the UK and the Commonwealth can do its own thing which is as it should be.

I'm not sure what you mean by "every nation in the UK" but the 2016 referendum clearly showed that the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland couldn't do what they clearly wanted.

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland ..... simple? They are presently in a Union. If they want to leave that Union I expect they will soon be able to leave if thats what they want.....hopefully.

Only Northern Ireland has anything resembling a right to secede from the UK. For the others it can only happen with decisions made by the government of the United Kingdom, not the people of that country or its devolved authorities.

Unless you can tell us the nature of such a right...

Jonathan

[gbnz]

My preference for abolition is noting to do with any monarch's personal behaviour,

And aside from all that, the absurdity of some old woman, representing the country. And one who's never worked or had a job and has little actual experience of life. That said, the main irritation today, is that I've had to turn Radio 4 off. All they're talking about is some old biddy, rather than interesting reviews of politics, wars and the economy (Nb. Though to be fair, I am looking forward to the funeral. Should be some decent military marching bands and who knows, maybe a couple of decent choral events)

I'm sure she would speak very highly of you.

Think her elder son did. But she's an old women, does it matter? No ill will, but presume she's losing it and will have never had a decent bike. May never of been on a decent ride. It's unreal, but to be fair, she isn't obese, on 40 a day (Nb. Like most of the local old hags)

[al_yrpal]

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland .....

In what sense is Northern Ireland a nation?

Thanks

Jonathan

I give up.....

Al

[Nearholmer]

It’s a fair question, and the reason that I dodged around mentioning NI specifically. I genuinely don’t understand the status of NI, and I doubt that anyone who doesn’t really, fully understand The Good Friday Agreement does, and given that that was built on what I think was called “creative ambiguity” at the time, two people who do fully understand it might come to different understandings.

[Mick F]

Platinum Jubilee.

1. HMQ Elizabeth became queen the second that her father George V1 died 6th Feb 1952.
2. She was crowned Queen 2nd June 1953.
3. 2nd June 2020 is the 69th anniversary of her coronation.
4. This day begins the 70th year since her coronation.
5. The day you are born starts your first year, and your birthday one year later, starts your second year.

6. Silver is 25 years, Golden in 50 years .............. and until Queen Victoria was getting old and the 60th year of her reign since her coronation, they "compressed" the anniversary stuff so she could have her Diamond Jubilee at 60 years instead of the 75 years it should have been. Since then, Diamond and Platinum follow at ten year intervals and not 25 year intervals.

What's the next one after Platinum?
Five years later instead of 10?
Uranium? Unobtianium?

[thirdcrank]

I think the idea is that the weather is better for outdoor celebrations in June rather than February.
=======================================

PS From her personal POV, perhaps she prefers the jollies to be on the date of the Coronation, rather than the anniversary of the death of her father.

[Jdsk]

1. HMQ Elizabeth became queen the second that her father George V1 died 6th Feb 1952.

Princess Elizabeth became Queen... she wan't "HMQ" until that moment.

2. She was crowned Queen 2nd June 1953.
3. 2nd June 2020 is the 69th anniversary of her coronation.

Those two don't look consistent.

6. Silver is 25 years, Golden in 50 years .............. and until Queen Victoria was getting old and the 60th year of her reign since her coronation, they "compressed" the anniversary stuff so she could have her Diamond Jubilee at 60 years instead of the 75 years it should have been.

That's interesting. Why should a Diamond celebration be at 75 years rather than 60 years?

Thanks

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

Well spotted re 2020! This is better than the pedants' corner in Private Eye

[Jdsk]

: - )

I try not to do it, but the whole post was about getting dates and labels right. It's rather like Skitt's Law for use of English.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

Out cycling today I had a daft thought. Imagine we (in the UK) have a Presidentail Election and Queene decides to stand as a candidate - can you imaging her manifesto:

I will scrutinise your proposed laws to ensure they don't impact my (or my families) personal interests.
I will make a short pre-recorded TV broadcast once a year.
Even if I lose the election I will keep all my palaces and properties generously provided by taxpayers.
Everybody will stop work and celebrate my memorable anniversaries
Radio will play "God Save The Queen" Every night
Don't expect me to contribute anything useful to the governance of the country
etc.

ould you vote for such a manifesto?

Ian

[pwa]

I'm not sure what you mean by "every nation in the UK" but the 2016 referendum clearly showed that the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland couldn't do what they clearly wanted.

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland ..... simple? They are presently in a Union. If they want to leave that Union I expect they will soon be able to leave if thats what they want.....hopefully.

Only Northern Ireland has anything resembling a right to secede from the UK. For the others it can only happen with decisions made by the government of the United Kingdom, not the people of that country or its devolved authorities.

Unless you can tell us the nature of such a right...

Jonathan

Such a "right" does not exist as a law but it exists in practice, because UK Governments have a tradition of granting a vote on the matter where it looks as though one ought to happen. Wales had a least one vote on Independence, as did Scotland. Such votes and the campaigns that lead up to them are disruptive, so the unspoken rule is that they don't happen too often, but they do happen. If the desire for independence in Scotland is still strong enough a few years from now there will be another vote, as sure as night follows day.

The situation in NI is complicated by the arrangement that ensures that the side with the most seats cannot govern without sharing power with the other side. Coalition is a requirement. There are problems with this, as we see at present, but the intention behind it is sound. In the long term I expect NI may one day vote on its status, within the UK or a united Ireland, but to do so now would be inflammatory. One side would emerge despondent and feeling hard done by, and a return to violence would be likely. NI isn't yet ready for a vote on that.