The "Royals" Thread

[Mick F]

Unanswered question?

The old idea was Silver, Golden, Diamond, Centenary.
Every 25 years.

Don't bother with Wiki.

[Jdsk]

Unanswered question?

The old idea was Silver, Golden, Diamond, Centenary.
Every 25 years.

And the question was:

6. Silver is 25 years, Golden in 50 years .............. and until Queen Victoria was getting old and the 60th year of her reign since her coronation, they "compressed" the anniversary stuff so she could have her Diamond Jubilee at 60 years instead of the 75 years it should have been.

That's interesting. Why should a Diamond celebration be at 75 years rather than 60 years?

Still unanswered.

Any sources or evidence for that "old idea"?

Thanks

Jonathan

[briansnail]

The United kingdom and USA have a special relationship.After all a lot people emigrated to USA.Admitted USA is a republican and there was a war a very long time ago.In the Queens jubilee tributes President Obama spoke movingly of the Queen and UK.
So how come USA is not in the Commonwealth?

[Mick F]

Still unanswered other than my knowledge.
Check on Wiki, but that's inconclusive and "modernist" and "populist".
It's something I read many many years ago in a text book.

It makes sense if you think about it.
Why have precious metals/jewels at 25year intervals, then compress them down to ten year intervals later?
Only to keep the population interested in an elderly monarch or a marriage.

We'll be celebrating our Golden next year BTW.

[Nearholmer]

Why isn’t the USA in The Commonwealth?

Because it fought a war of independence, won, and went off to cuddle its muskets and cannons ages ago, rather than being spun off as the empire gradually frayed at the edges and fell to bits more recently.

President Macron made a jolly good speech congratulating HMQ too, but France isn’t in The Commonwealth either, and doesn’t have a strong track-record of tolerating monarchy on its own soil.

[Jdsk]

Still unanswered other than my knowledge.

Thanks.

I don't think that there was ever any consensus on 75y rather than 60y.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The United kingdom and USA have a special relationship.After all a lot people emigrated to USA.Admitted USA is a republican and there was a war a very long time ago.In the Queens jubilee tributes President Obama spoke movingly of the Queen and UK.
So how come USA is not in the Commonwealth?

Why isn’t the USA in The Commonwealth?

Because it fought a war of independence, won, and went off to cuddle its muskets and cannons ages ago, rather than being spun off as the empire gradually frayed at the edges and fell to bits more recently.

Yes.

The Commonwealth is the successor to the British Commonwealth which was the successor to the British Empire.

Apart from the American War of Independence the conflict over empire was a major issue for the Allies in WWII.

What's very interesting is the countries who have joined the Commonwealth despite not having been part of the Empire: Mozambique and Rwanda.

And of course countries which stay in the Commwealth but remove the monarch as the Head of State will be important models for the UK (or its successor states) if we decide to do the same.

Jonathan

[Psamathe]

The United kingdom and USA have a special relationship.After all a lot people emigrated to USA.Admitted USA is a republican and there was a war a very long time ago.In the Queens jubilee tributes President Obama spoke movingly of the Queen and UK.
So how come USA is not in the Commonwealth?

Why on earth does President Obama making a speech suggest the US should be in the Commonwealth? Quite a few countries have a lot of expats so should they also be in the Commonwealth?

Countries seem to be breaking with UK Royal links more than making them these days.

Ian

[pwa]

The United kingdom and USA have a special relationship.After all a lot people emigrated to USA.Admitted USA is a republican and there was a war a very long time ago.In the Queens jubilee tributes President Obama spoke movingly of the Queen and UK.
So how come USA is not in the Commonwealth?

Why on earth does President Obama making a speech suggest the US should be in the Commonwealth? Quite a few countries have a lot of expats so should they also be in the Commonwealth?

Countries seem to be breaking with UK Royal links more than making them these days.

Ian

Commonwealth countries are by and large ex British Empire territories having become independent but retaining links with the UK. Some (not all) also retain the Queen as Head of State, for now at least. The USA split with the UK so long ago, and under such hostile circumstances, that membership of the Commonwealth would seem odd. Eire split much more recently but chose not to be a member. And to modern eyes the Commonwealth does seem a bit anachronistic.

[Nearholmer]

Eire split much more recently but chose not to be a member.

The Irish Free State, which was a dominion country, ceased to exist from 1937, but Eire as it existed from 1937 to 1948, when it formally became The Republic, is a bit of a mystery constitutionally, because it had a President, and had sort-of banished the monarchy, but not quite. Whether Eire left the commonwealth, or was never in it, is also a bit of a mystery, because The Irish Free State had largely ceased to have anything to do with it before Eire came into being, but then Eire was participating in commonwealth events in a limited way up until 1948, when there was a big spat about the question, which was sort-of settled when The Republic was enacted, but I don’t think any iteration of the state in Ireland ever formally left the commonwealth, they just moved outside it by ceasing to recognise the monarchy at all. Definitely a confusing topic!

[pwa]

Eire split much more recently but chose not to be a member.

The Irish Free State, which was a dominion country, ceased to exist from 1937, but Eire as it existed from 1937 to 1948, when it formally became The Republic, is a bit of a mystery constitutionally, because it had a President, and had sort-of banished the monarchy, but not quite. Whether Eire left the commonwealth, or was never in it, is also a bit of a mystery, because The Irish Free State had largely ceased to have anything to do with it before Eire came into being, but then Eire was participating in commonwealth events in a limited way up until 1948, when there was a big spat about the question, which was sort-of settled when The Republic was enacted, but I don’t think any iteration of the state in Ireland ever formally left the commonwealth, they just moved outside it by ceasing to recognise the monarchy at all. Definitely a confusing topic!

The Commonwealth is like a club, and a member that ceases participation isn't really a member, whatever some lawyer might try to argue. My father (who died a couple of years ago) was from the Irish Republic, and like many Irish people he was proud to be from a place where the Head of State has to be approved by the people and isn't born to a position of privilege. I argued with him about many things over the years, but never that.

[thirdcrank]

That had me rectifying my lamentable ignorance of the name of the president of Eire.

It's also reminded me of something I vaguely knew already. Bearing in mind that the constitution of Eire originated in the modern era, there are two versions. The definitive version is in Irish (?) and the other in English which isn't a strict translation of the other. Perhaps a lesson for constitutional reform in this sceptered isle would be to stick to one version, in plain English

[Mick F]

Many years ago when on a management course, we attended a lecture about the Commonwealth and the EU/EEC
1989 if my memory serves me. I'd just been promoted from a basic CPO to a Charge Chief .............. nowadays called a Warrant Officer 2.

After the Empire and the formation of the Commonwealth, we never really set up a trading bloc with them, and we should have done, and also, if we had, we wouldn't have joined the EU/EEC.

It was an interesting lecture and quite balanced, but the conclusion was as I said above.

[thirdcrank]

I see the constitutional role of the monarch may be tested quite soon as it's reported Boris Johnson is to face a (no) confidence vote of his MPs tonight. The threshold is, of course much higher than 54 letters to the 1922 Committee needed to trigger the vote. I also hear veiled threats of an early general election, presumably intended to frighten tory MPs into backing him. Suppose a vote of no confidence is achieved and he goes for an immediate GE, AIUI the queen would be within her powers to ask another (tory) MP to form a government

[Jdsk]

Suppose a vote of no confidence is achieved and he goes for an immediate GE, AIUI the queen would be within her powers to ask another (tory) MP to form a government

Yes. She can appoint anyone whom she thinks can command the support of the House of Commons. At the moment that would appear to be a Conservative MP. (The position of Deputy Prime Minister is irrelevant.)
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... p-contests
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... -ministers

Jonathan