Shimano M324 pedal prob

[zenitb]

I’ve taken the plunge on the TL 33 with Bike-Discount - “one more order from Germany before Brexit” I keep saying to myself.

Definitely the sensible move if time is more important than money. I think you will be impressed by how nicely the tool is made .. when you get it you realise why it costs so much more than the plastic "pastry cutter" the PD-M520 et al use. Shimano show no sign of replacing the PD-M324 so I suspect over time this will be a cheap purchase (I have FIVE pairs of PD-M324 so the tool is about £8/pedal)

Regarding the outer nut you are already aware you may need to file off the sharp edges of the hex. Some people have not had to do this (I did) so I can only think there are different pedal axle nuts used at different times... as you say .. mad.

The final pain with these pedals (!!!) is placing the deeply hidden inboard bearings. I struggled with this (and I think others have as well) so I have knocked up a quick diagram of the method that works for me. (Note I do the inboard bearings first - the outboard bearings are much easier and can be done last) This method gives you a really good view of the placement without anything getting in the way. It still takes lots of painstaking placement to get all the balls in but its a reliable repeatable process which avoids "backward steps" with dropped balls etc. I am old and short sighted so take my glasses off to do this (good close range vision) but YMMV regarding eyesight. See if the diagram makes sense ? Its only a suggestion .. I am sure there are lots of other ways of doing this .. for me this was the route back to sanity though.

[Sweep]

thanks for that zenitb.
I think I understand it - will know more when I take them apart again - gave up last time after the abovementioned issue with the tool and managing to lose a ball - now have a new supply from simply bearings.

I take it that you suggest inserting the nearside bearings from the offside using that paintbrush handle?

Would a thin ball end magnetised hex key work as well?

I use such keys of an appropriate size for manipulating loose bearings for wheel hubs and headsets.

Must admit, and after getting the tool, I am having doubts about these pedals and may not buy more. I have two at the moment, though a third older pair may still be running if I had maintained them.

Usually at home I use clips but on longer tours have taken to just using flats and am happy to just switch my single pair of Sylvan Touring flat pedals to whichever bike is heading off on tour. They are a doddle to service.

[zenitb]

...
I take it that you suggest inserting the nearside(inboard) bearings from the offside using that paintbrush handle?

Yes Sweep.. this worked for me.. the inboard bearings are a long way in and when i tried to insert them from the same side I was looking in (the inboard side) then I just couldn't see what was going on. This way you have a bit further to carry the bearing, but you have a perfect view of seating it in the ball race..

Would a thin ball end magnetised hex key work as well?

I am not sure .. I dont have a good record with magnetised things .. I end up picking up all the other balls at the same time ... then dropping them all.. You might be more skilled with them than I am though ...

One other thing .. once you have both sets of the balls nicely placed you have to take care to insert the axle pretty centralised .. so as not to disturb those inner balls. Again I look down the inside of the pedal .. this time from the outboard side .. to check the pedal spindle is coming in dead straight.

Ok its a bit of faff fixing these pedals but if you have the time to sit and plod through its quite satisfying keeping them on the road..

[Brucey]

IIRC there is a plastic sleeve filling the space in the bore on the 'inboard side' of the pedal (where 'inboard side' means LH side of the RH pedal and RH side of the LH pedal). I have seen this sleeve loose so it can move but I have never actually removed it myself. It seems to me that if this sleeve comes out, it would be rather easier to fit all the balls in the inboard bearing.

It also occurs to me that a tool could be made to help build the 'inboard' bearing (even if the sleeve doesn't come out); I have in mind a tool comprising of a rod that is inserted from the 'inboard side' and is stepped such that it is located on the ID of both bearing cups. The tool would be bored hollow to the correct depth (alongside the 'inboard' bearing) and then cross-drilled (at an angle) so that balls could be fed down the tube and then pushed into the cup (which would be filled with grease beforehand). The idea would be that the tool would be rotated whilst a flexible prodder is used to force the balls out. The balls would pretty much have no choice but to go exactly where they are meant to go.

If my idea works then it should be possible to make a simple tool that does the same job, perhaps using plastic tubes.

just a thought anyway.

cheers

[zenitb]

IIRC there is a plastic sleeve filling the space in the bore on the 'inboard side' of the pedal (where 'inboard side' means LH side of the RH pedal and RH side of the LH pedal). I have seen this sleeve loose so it can move but I have never actually removed it myself. It seems to me that if this sleeve comes out, it would be rather easier to fit all the balls in the inboard bearing.

It also occurs to me that a tool could be made to help build the 'inboard' bearing (even if the sleeve doesn't come out); I have in mind a tool comprising of a rod that is inserted from the 'inboard side' and is stepped such that it is located on the ID of both bearing cups. The tool would be bored hollow to the correct depth (alongside the 'inboard' bearing) and then cross-drilled (at an angle) so that balls could be fed down the tube and then pushed into the cup (which would be filled with grease beforehand). The idea would be that the tool would be rotated whilst a flexible prodder is used to force the balls out. The balls would pretty much have no choice but to go exactly where they are meant to go.

If my idea works then it should be possible to make a simple tool that does the same job, perhaps using plastic tubes.

just a thought anyway.

cheers

sounds a great idea Brucey.. if you think about it Mr Shimano must have something like that at the factory .. there is no way they have a line of old codgers like me manually popping ball bearings in by hand - they would never get any pedals made

PS
I like your "inboard" / "outboard" terminology BTW. Not sure why I said "nearside"/"offside" - I was struggling for the words I think ... I am probably going to edit that early post to use the same "inboard"/"outboard" convention ...

[Sweep]

Thanks for detailed reply up above zenitb.
Oh how i wish we had a like key.

[hoogerbooger]

I tried and failed to make a tool. And my brother 3D printed a cone tool we found online. Slightly wrong size and had to sand a little & as it was plastic it cracked. Only any use as v short term fix on tour as can't get much torque on it.

Bit the bullet & ordered tl-pd33 from Bikeinn last Saturday. Got no confimation email. Read Bikeinn reviews !!!! Oh dear !........... but fair doos it arrived from Spain today.
(they at least have some customer services issues though)

So next task is filing the lock nuts down !! ( bonkers)

However having had them try to fall apart twice on tour I can confirm holding the cone with a flat screwdriver won't buy you much time before the lock nut unwinds again.

(2nd time they tried to fall apart on the C2C I randomly & miraculously cycled past Recyk'yr bike in Byker. Fantastic recycling operation there. Got some nice 2nd hand pedals to continue into the 25mph headwind)

I sincerely hope I can now properly service and get enough torque to actually lock the nuts.

(Oh yes and £8 for new bearings...and they are heavy!!)

[nsew]

Better to bin them & the crappy shoes and shop around for some lightly used M828 Saints. What a pedal, toughest, smoothest, most comfortable platform I’ve ridden.

[hoogerbooger]

Who said I had crappy shoes?

[nsew]

Who said I had crappy shoes?

Just hazarding a guess.

[zenitb]

Just a quick FYI - just to clarify I am not the seller and have no personal interest. £31.65 inc postage seemed a reasonable (comparitively!!) price though and feedback looks ok ... and there seems to be a few people around wanting one..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-Peda ... 0005.m1851

[Sweep]

Who said I had crappy shoes?

[David9694]

Germany has delivered - again. I guess it’s satisfying to be able to lock off the ball race properly - not sure I’m much better off than using individual 10mm and 1/2” sockets on them.

The 10mm doesn’t fit in all 6 orientations, only some.

I’m a bit of a lightweight on this, have just regreased, haven’t attempted any keyhole micro-surgery with the inboard.

[hoogerbooger]

just tried servicing my M324's ( with aid of correct tool). One pedal fine. the other was proving impossible to set without play, or without horrible gritty feeling...sometimes if a tad closer set gritty with bindy clicks.

For both pedals I was a bit surprised about how much that tightening the lock nut also tightened the cone, despite the correct tool holding the cone in position and the spindle held in a soft mouthed vice. This made it a process it a process of trial and error of setting the cone loose then tightening the lock nut and then testing if too tight or too loose.

Anyway looks like the problem with the difficult pedal is the outside cone and cup are pitted:

The cup raceway looks similar....not smooth.

Now, I could put these pedals on the hack and see if I can wear the dodgy raceways back in. So what is the best option out of a bit of play or worryingly grindy ?

[iandusud]

Once the races are pitted they are shot as the case hardening is worn. They'll just continue to be rough and wear at a rapid rate.