** The Climate Change Thread **

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Pebble
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Pebble »

reohn2 wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 4:55pm There's too many human beings,we're too successful at breeding and living long lives for our's and the planet's good.
we could end up being one of the least successful species of all time, even the dinosaurs managed 150 million years, I think we will all go off in a big bang long before that.

We need to seriously change our ways if we are going to survive as a humanity, but sadly I don't think it is in our nature, we're too greedy and selfish, and far too clever for our own good.
Jdsk
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Jdsk »

Pebble wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 5:11pm... even the dinosaurs managed 150 million years...
Or 240 My depending on how you look at it. I'd include the successful successors of the big ones because we need to evolve too, only in this case culturally.

Jonathan
UpWrong
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by UpWrong »

reohn2 wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 4:55pm There's too many human beings,we're too successful at breeding and living long lives for our's and the planet's good.
Which politician is going to propose complusory, reversible sterilisation at birth with the reversal dependent on proving that you can be a good parent? And I'm being careful not even to try to define what a good parent is and how to "certify" one.
gbnz
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by gbnz »

Pebble wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 5:11pm
We need to seriously change our ways if we are going to survive ....... I don't think it is in our nature,
At a basic level, it doesn't really matter. Suppose I live an exemplary "green" lifestyle, still finding it incredible to again and again, hear of stories of cyclists doing their shopping by car, drying their washing with a tumble drier, eating red meat etc, etc.

But doesn't really matter, as long as it doesn't effect me :wink: . Life is finite and another variety of human will presumably evolve at some stage, or perhaps humanity will die out. Rather like the glaciers covering my current, evening circular ride. Having to negotiate 500' deep glaciers, in addition to a quick 30 miles, would be a real nuisance. Fortunately they melted 20000 yr's ago, leaving some superb, easy gradients :wink:
reohn2
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by reohn2 »

Pebble wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 5:11pm ......We need to seriously change our ways if we are going to survive as a humanity, but sadly I don't think it is in our nature, we're too greedy and selfish, and far too clever for our own good.
Nail,head,on!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by reohn2 »

UpWrong wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 5:47pm
reohn2 wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 4:55pm There's too many human beings,we're too successful at breeding and living long lives for our's and the planet's good.
Which politician is going to propose complusory, reversible sterilisation at birth with the reversal dependent on proving that you can be a good parent? And I'm being careful not even to try to define what a good parent is and how to "certify" one.
None.
We will not stop breeding because it's in our nature to proliferate even if brings about our ultimate extinction.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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simonineaston
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by simonineaston »

Which politician is going to propose complusory, reversible sterilisation
No need. The problem is self-solving. After-all, we have zero rights. Such as we think we have, exist soley in our minds... As climate change ramps up and it becomes increasingly obvious we are fighting for our lives, just watch those "rights" disappear like Scotch mist...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Cugel »

simonineaston wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 7:35pm
Which politician is going to propose complusory, reversible sterilisation
No need. The problem is self-solving. After-all, we have zero rights. Such as we think we have, exist soley in our minds... As climate change ramps up and it becomes increasingly obvious we are fighting for our lives, just watch those "rights" disappear like Scotch mist...
"Natural Rights" - a quaint notion dreamt up by some humans that believe there's only one kind of right human and one right way for it to behave. I recall that they had the idea from their god-book, failing to realise that their god is also a human mental construction, along with the book. Pure Scottish mist.

"Human rights" - similar to the above but at least a recognition that the rights have to be made actual with ...

"Legal Rights" - the only meaningful kind in that they're artificial constructs of humans in a polity with actual means to implement them, police them and otherwise make them "real".

Sadly, legal rights are also a bit scottish misty as polities can allow gharks & hoos into power, which they then employ to get rid of not just the rights but the legal system implementing them. (For details, see Bokum & familiars). Also, Putin and similar creatures have instruments that can flatten the legal rights of any polity he don't like the look of. He practices getting rid of legal rights within his own domain first.

********
It's an old one but still worth considering: the tiger couldn't give a fig for our rights - natural, human, legal or any other kind - when she's hungry and we're the nearest dinner. The tiger is just one armature of Momma Nature, a merciless mammy not inclined to indulge her noisome brats. We're all doomed!

Cugel the Harbinger, hoping The Doom arrives later rather than sooner (but arrive it will).
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Psamathe
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Psamathe »

Cugel wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 8:21pm ....
Cugel the Harbinger, hoping The Doom arrives later rather than sooner (but arrive it will).
Sorry, it's going to be sooner not later ...

Ian
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Cugel »

Psamathe wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 8:33pm
Cugel wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 8:21pm ....
Cugel the Harbinger, hoping The Doom arrives later rather than sooner (but arrive it will).
Sorry, it's going to be sooner not later ...

Ian
Will I have time for another bike ride or two? There are some lanes out here I've still not been up (or down). I could ride them wearing a "The End is Nigh!" sign.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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francovendee
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by francovendee »

As the climate changes and makes life harder and even impossible for many the world we will fall back to a 'Might is Right' .
Democracy or any pretence of it, will be long gone.
Individual nations and rich individuals in those nations will use force to get what they want without any thought about how they would be seen by others.
Psamathe
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Psamathe »

francovendee wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 8:06am As the climate changes and makes life harder and even impossible for many the world we will fall back to a 'Might is Right' .
Democracy or any pretence of it, will be long gone.
Individual nations and rich individuals in those nations will use force to get what they want without any thought about how they would be seen by others.
Just look at how we [UK] reacts to very small numbers of refugees. What is going to happen as ever larger areas of the World become impossible for human habitation? Will UK be sympathetic to the problem given we are a significant part of the cause (historically and currently)?

Ian
reohn2
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 8:06am As the climate changes and makes life harder and even impossible for many the world we will fall back to a 'Might is Right' .
Democracy or any pretence of it, will be long gone.
Individual nations and rich individuals in those nations will use force to get what they want without any thought about how they would be seen by others.
The words jungle and law of,spring to mind.
We're witnessing the beginnings of it now IMHO,there's a human face being potrayed but behind it the truth is very dark.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Philip Benstead »

May be Covid19 and monkeypot and similar to come is blessing disguise?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Climate Change Thread **

Post by Psamathe »

Philip Benstead wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 10:44am May be Covid19 and monkeypot and similar to come is blessing disguise?
Maybe I've become cynical but for example look at how we (humanity) have reacted to anti-biotic resistance. When I was training 25 years ago we were taught back then about anti-biotic resistance, causes and devastating impacts. Causes and impacts we were taught back then are pretty much the same as has happened (e.g. overuse, preventative dosing by agriculture, incomplete courses, inappropriate use e.g. against viral infections). Yet 40 years later and the only thing that has changed is a lot more resistant bugs already causing issues.

We [human race] fully understood the problem, causes, impacts and what we needed to do and completely failed to act and are now seeing the problems. Is the Covid/Monkeypox situation going to be any different? Politicians have already moved-on and are heralding their own (personal) success at resolving the pandemic.

Ian
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