Has Trump just started WW3?

[mercalia]

The Guardian puts it all into perspective?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/03/defining-moment-in-middle-east-the-killing-qassem-suleimani?

[Ben@Forest]

"War is Peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"

The Ministry of Truth, George Orwell's 1984.

George Orwell also wrote:`People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf'.

We don't know the truth of this action or the reasons why. But we do know that this sequence of violence was sparked by the killing of an American contractor by an Iran-backed Hezbollah group that fired maybe 30 rockets. Maybe the US know this was part of a Fabian strategy to get all Americans out of Iraq and to completely destroy the Green Zone.

Also this Iranian general was not a man to shed tears for. He has been instrumental in sponsoring terrorist groups and has supported Assad in Syria. Maybe those who live by the sword die by the sword. Of course it means that Trump is now holding a sword himself.

[Mike Sales]

George Orwell also wrote:`People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf'.

We don't know the truth of this action or the reasons why. But we do know that this sequence of violence was sparked by the killing of an American contractor by an Iran-backed Hezbollah group that fired maybe 30 rockets. Maybe the US know this was part of a Fabian strategy to get all Americans out of Iraq and to completely destroy the Green Zone.

Also this Iranian general was not a man to shed tears for. He has been instrumental in sponsoring terrorist groups and has supported Assad in Syria. Maybe those who live by the sword die by the sword. Of course it means that Trump is now holding a sword himself.

If the Iranian government killed Trump with the aim of saving the lives of their citizens, I don't think that would work either.

[mercalia]

George Orwell also wrote:`People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf'.

We don't know the truth of this action or the reasons why. But we do know that this sequence of violence was sparked by the killing of an American contractor by an Iran-backed Hezbollah group that fired maybe 30 rockets. Maybe the US know this was part of a Fabian strategy to get all Americans out of Iraq and to completely destroy the Green Zone.

Also this Iranian general was not a man to shed tears for. He has been instrumental in sponsoring terrorist groups and has supported Assad in Syria. Maybe those who live by the sword die by the sword. Of course it means that Trump is now holding a sword himself.

If the Iranian government killed Trump with the aim of saving the lives of their citizens, I don't think that would work either.

if you read the Guardian article, the general had been formenting trouble in Syria, Lebanon & Iraq and was in the process of facilitating Iran's missiles to attack Israel, thereby undermining any Palentinian cause. Good riddance to the man, I doubt he will be easily replaced. What can Iran do? They dont have a navy just some speed boats. They dont have an air force , but they do have some missiles. What they do have is a very large army - most totalitarian regimes have that not to defend against external threats but to put down internal dissent? Remember the Iran-Iraq wars that were a stalemate? How easily Saddam's forces,the so called Republican Guard, were wiped out by the USA? Trumps policy is to with draw from the region as far as possible thus minimising room for reprisals?

[Mike Sales]

Anyone remember The Fugs?

CIA Man.
(Censored)

Who can kill a general in his bed?
Overthrow dictators if they're Red?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

Who can buy a government so cheap?
Change a cabinet without a squeak?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

Who can train guerrillas by the dozens?
Send them out to kill their untrained cousins?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

Who can get a budget that's so great?
Who will be the 51st state?
Who has got the secret-est service?
One that makes the other service nervous?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

Who can take the sugar from a sack
Pour in LSD and put it back?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!


Who can mine the harbors of Nicaragua?
Outhit all the hitmen of Chicag-ua?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

Who can be so overtly covert?
Sometimes ever covertly overt?
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!
Who's the agency well known to God?
The one that copped his staff and copped his rod?

Naffing A-man!
CIA man!
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!
Naffing A-man!
CIA man!

CIA man! CIA man! CIA man! CIA man! CIA man!

https://genius.com/The-fugs-cia-man-lyrics

[Oldjohnw]

I'm still wondering what's happened to Mustique Man. Presumably they have fridges there for him to hide in.

[Mike Sales]

The claim that the assassination was justified because of an "imminent attack" reminds me of the claims of WMDs in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

Britain's biggest selling popular daily newspaper, The Sun, subsequently carried the headline "Brits 45mins from doom",[4] while the Daily Star reported "Mad Saddam ready to attack: 45 minutes from a chemical war",[5] helping to create the impression among the British public that Iraq was a threat to Britain.

[Audax67]

Dunno if it's been mentioned upstream, but Boris's Brexit Suit must be feeling a little tight under the arms just now. "Unhelpful" doesn't sell well at the negotiating table.

[kwackers]

Dunno if it's been mentioned upstream, but Boris's Brexit Suit must be feeling a little tight under the arms just now. "Unhelpful" doesn't sell well at the negotiating table.

Fortunately we've backtracked on that so our "great trade deal" status is back - with added chlorine!

The foreign secretary has backed Donald Trump’s “right” to assassinate Iran’s top military general, in a marked shift towards supporting the incendiary attack.

Dominic Raab said the UK “understands the position the US found themselves in” ahead of killing Qasem Soleimani, saying it had “a right to self-defence”.

The shift comes after Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, criticised the UK, France and Germany for failing to be “as helpful as I wish that they could be”.

[dim]

a good video:

[youtube]xszvdy_Egjo[/youtube]

[Oldjohnw]

So far, three of the rightwing populist world leaders have proven pretty useless when crises arise:Trump, Morrison, Johnson.

Incidentally, all are to some extent climate denialists. None have a plan or strategy.

[pwa]

Dunno if it's been mentioned upstream, but Boris's Brexit Suit must be feeling a little tight under the arms just now. "Unhelpful" doesn't sell well at the negotiating table.

Fortunately we've backtracked on that so our "great trade deal" status is back - with added chlorine!

The foreign secretary has backed Donald Trump’s “right” to assassinate Iran’s top military general, in a marked shift towards supporting the incendiary attack.

Dominic Raab said the UK “understands the position the US found themselves in” ahead of killing Qasem Soleimani, saying it had “a right to self-defence”.

The shift comes after Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, criticised the UK, France and Germany for failing to be “as helpful as I wish that they could be”.

As long as I can remember, and I'm thinking back as far as the 1970s, UK Governments have struggled to express disapproval to US actions. The best you can ever hope for is that they drag their feet to find anything supportive to say. You have to read the disapproval, dismay even, between the lines.

At the risk of breaking a Forum convention by saying something that could be seen as weakening my position in adversarial discourse, we have been supremely unlucky in embarking on Brexit at a time when the US President is such and awkward bugger. You couldn't think of a worse person to be in that office, from a UK perspective. From anyone's perspective, really. The man is a disaster for mankind.

[Audax67]

Special Relationship: US says jump, UK jumps specially high. UK says jump, US says "anybody hear anything?"

[Ben@Forest]

As long as I can remember, and I'm thinking back as far as the 1970s, UK Governments have struggled to express disapproval to US actions. The best you can ever hope for is that they drag their feet to find anything supportive to say. You have to read the disapproval, dismay even, between the lines.

At the risk of breaking a Forum convention by saying something that could be seen as weakening my position in adversarial discourse, we have been supremely unlucky in embarking on Brexit at a time when the US President is such and awkward bugger. You couldn't think of a worse person to be in that office, from a UK perspective. From anyone's perspective, really. The man is a disaster for mankind.

From here Trump's policies look incoherent, but with China and Iran he may be taking stronger lines that other US presidents shied away from. Certainly Clinton is on record as saying he wished he'd been tougher on Middle Eastern terrorism when he'd been in power.

Looking at human rights abuses, military technologies, copyright infringements etc the US should never have normalised trading relationships with China, but that happened many years before Trump - and that did no favours for rustbelt America.

The West has been appeasing Iran for many years; it is a pretty vicious theocracy which has sponsored no end of terrorist groups and would happily wipe Israel off the map. The West has a confused policy in the Middle East and a poor record but there is no doubt the overall problem is that after 50 years or more of independence nearly none of these countries are even close to achieving democracy, and as the saying goes, democracies don't go to war against each other.

Having said all that it is concerning, but it maybe the US thought the assassination would benefit them in the long-term. We just don't know what was just around the corner. Iran is broke, with an angry population and a huge military. Their projection of power is to subjugate their own people and cause dissent elsewhere.

[mattheus]

Incidentally, all are to some extent climate denialists.

I see what you've done there. Any other hobby horses you want to drag up again? Of course I expected nothing else of you