Bivvi bags - advice please

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hufty
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by hufty »

horizon wrote:The bivvy versus tent debate must be done to death but for wild camping:

Bivvy: light, easy to unroll, put away, you can hear/see people coming, fresh air!
Tent: needs pegging and maybe better ground. Heavier.


I would add to that Bivvy: doesn't stick up as much so better stealth.
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Sweep
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by Sweep »

Oldjohnw wrote:I regularly use this sometimes with the Alpkit tarp:

https://www.alpkit.com/products/hunka

Excellent item. Been on top of Cheviot and Helvellyn with it. Light as a feather. You need a reasonably good sleeping bag if winter use. And a mat, inside or underneath.



It does seem to get some great reviews* and it sounds as if it's good on the condensation, or rather lack of.

I use a brit army one which I like but though it is supposed to be made of some sort of Gore stuff it does get slight condensation.

It's also of course heavier than that alpkit thing.

* Including this from someone who sounds like a real toughnut:

"Used for the first time at the w'end in ~14ºC with a one season sleeping bag, on the N Y Moors."

I hope they are still with us.

I am seriously tempted by that alpkit I must admit.
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mattheus
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by mattheus »

Perhaps his "1 season" bag is only suitable for January on the NYM?
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
At 6'1" go for xl, easier to get in out no feet touching bottom, even store some of your gear.
I am about 6' and my bivvy is 225 x 80 x 50 at foot, just right but snug, extra 8" width will be a boon.
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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by LinusR »

horizon wrote:The bivvy versus tent debate must be done to death but for wild camping:

Bivvy: light, easy to unroll, put away, you can hear/see people coming, fresh air!
Tent: needs pegging and maybe better ground. Heavier.

But (I have a Jetpacker) here's the thing: a tent provides a dry environment around you. It will also provide some heat by trapping body warmth. On a bke, the weight IMV isn't an issue. I know what would be my choice.


I just took the JetPacker out and removed the inner tent, spares and the two "A" poles; so I'm just left with the outer, alloy pegs, and the single back and front poles. Much lighter. So that will give me an enclosed water and dew proof cover. (My JetPacker comes with two sets of front poles: one set to use in the A pole configuration and a lighter single pole at the entrance.)

Others on this thread have said they use a bivvy with a tarp, which together would seem to weigh the same as the outer tent of the Jetpacker. Make sense?

In the picture is (from top to bottom) the tent outer (not compressed), thermarest, and 1-2 season sleeping bag. Probably less than 2kg total.

IMG_20200127_223343726.jpg
hamster
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by hamster »

Looks good, although you would still need a groundsheet - which is where a bivvy bag is just as effective.
I tend to err on the side of tents as they are much more comfortable and versatile except in settled weather. The bivvy bag is great for sneaky overnight 'smash and grab' trips.
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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by LinusR »

hamster wrote:Looks good, although you would still need a groundsheet - which is where a bivvy bag is just as effective.
I tend to err on the side of tents as they are much more comfortable and versatile except in settled weather. The bivvy bag is great for sneaky overnight 'smash and grab' trips.


That's the dilemma. When I ditch the inner tent I then need a groundsheet. Bivvy bag, groundsheet and a tarp overhead and I'm taking weight and bulk away only to regain it elsewhere. I've always thought of my tent as a "glorified hooped bivvy bag" as it is so small anyway. I could probably use a lighter sleeping bag inside the bivvy - maybe the fleece sleeping bag liner I have. I don't want to get cold at 500m up in the Brecon Beacons, even in the summer. I remember getting very cold in a tent last time I camped in the Beacons - 40 years ago.

I may experiment with getting a tarp sheet and cutting to size. Turn my MTB on its side, drape tarp sheet over the top tied down with a six pegs, and use a very light sleeping bag inside a Hunka bivvy bag with another piece of tarp cut to the same size as the Thermarest to go underneath.
mattheus
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by mattheus »

You don't need a groundsheet UNDER your bivvy-bag! :)

If it's warm enough, you just unroll it, climb in, go to sleep. You'll often manage without a mat*. It's that simple.

(I'm not saying that conditions will always allow this, oh no … )


*The issue of whether your mat should go inside or outside seems quite complex - I don't think there is a "right" answer (I've tried both). I've even managed without one where I've had a dry flat surface to sleep on, and I wasn't desperate for 7 hours perfect sleep - I'm not great at sleeping away from home bed anyway ...
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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by LinusR »

mattheus wrote:You don't need a groundsheet UNDER your bivvy-bag! :)

If it's warm enough, you just unroll it, climb in, go to sleep. You'll often manage without a mat*. It's that simple.

(I'm not saying that conditions will always allow this, oh no … )


*The issue of whether your mat should go inside or outside seems quite complex - I don't think there is a "right" answer (I've tried both). I've even managed without one where I've had a dry flat surface to sleep on, and I wasn't desperate for 7 hours perfect sleep - I'm not great at sleeping away from home bed anyway ...


I was thinking of a sheet to protect the Thermarest sleeping mat. I'd likely put the bivvy bag on top of the sleeping bag - it's a old rectangle-shape long mat so wouldn't fit in the bivvy bag very well. I don't sleep well and I find the mat to be essential for comfort.
hamster
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by hamster »

LinusR wrote:I may experiment with getting a tarp sheet and cutting to size. Turn my MTB on its side, drape tarp sheet over the top tied down with a six pegs, and use a very light sleeping bag inside a Hunka bivvy bag with another piece of tarp cut to the same size as the Thermarest to go underneath.


The bivvy tarp enthusiasts use Tyvek as a groundsheet - very light and compact. Personally I dislike 'bike as a pole' solutions and reckon that the extra 70g for a pole is worth the faff...at which point I often end up taking a light tent...

But as said, there is no need for a groundsheet under a bivvy bag, the whole point is that the bag is waterproof: the Hunka definitely IS!
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by mercalia »

hamster wrote:
LinusR wrote:I may experiment with getting a tarp sheet and cutting to size. Turn my MTB on its side, drape tarp sheet over the top tied down with a six pegs, and use a very light sleeping bag inside a Hunka bivvy bag with another piece of tarp cut to the same size as the Thermarest to go underneath.


The bivvy tarp enthusiasts use Tyvek as a groundsheet - very light and compact. Personally I dislike 'bike as a pole' solutions and reckon that the extra 70g for a pole is worth the faff...at which point I often end up taking a light tent...

But as said, there is no need for a groundsheet under a bivvy bag, the whole point is that the bag is waterproof: the Hunka definitely IS!


I think ther ground sheet is about protecting the bag as they aint cheap
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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by LinusR »

hamster wrote:
But as said, there is no need for a groundsheet under a bivvy bag, the whole point is that the bag is waterproof: the Hunka definitely IS!


OK, having had a good rummage through the contents of my camping kit and the comments here about the Hunka I'm thinking of two scenarios.

1. Late summer at 500m in the Brecon Beacons with no threat of rain: Thermarest mat, Hunka bivvy with, fleece liner, and pertex liner (these liners are part of my existing kit) and a mosquito net for my head. That's a minimum kit which would be around 1kg and fairly compact.

2. As above but with a chance of rain and wet ground: as above but with the addition of my JetPacker tent flysheet, and maybe an extra ground sheet to protect the thermarest. That's about 1.5kg.

I can experiment with the above at my usual camping spot where I can take all the gear and see how it goes over a couple of nights. All the comments on this thread are much appreciated. Thanks.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
My summer kit my coast ride last year consisted of Off the top of my head-
Cheap synthetic bag two season 600 g
Cheap breathable bivy bag 350 g
Really cheap 5 mm thick foam mat 100 g
Pillow Which is just a pillowcase made from fleece half normal size that you use at home, stuff with your clothes overnight.
One early morning I was a little bit chilled, but it was tolerable.
Six night in bus shelters, two on the bench the rest on a concrete floor.
You knew floor was flat and hard but not that uncomfortable, surprising how comfortable with just a 5 mm foam mat.
Also although open at the front Overhead I was protected from any rain.
The night I was cold was probably on the floor of the glass shelter.
If you are going to camp on grass, once you have located your site I would normally lay the tent on the ground, And lay on the ⛺️ to see it was not uncomfortable and downhill.
This is the trick if the ground is soft grass et cetera then the mat does not need to be that good.
In my youth I found you had to sleep three nights before you actually got a good nights sleep.

Bivy verse tent, it's very simple if it rains and it's windy you will need more gear to match a tent.
If it doesn't rain you can probably get the weight down to about 60% of the tent pack complete all in with a bivy.
I took a waterproof balaclava in case it rained and I was in the open, I didn't need it so I'm not sure how effective it would've been?
Using tent as a pole is a total waste of time, not light and cumbersome to, definitely no weight saving there just a novelty.

One night you're not gonna get much sleep anyway are you, unless you're a really heavy sleeper, As I said further up post Surprising how comfortable just a thin foam Matt is, On grass say 6-9 inches moorland An air bed is simply just extra weight, and not as reliable either.

On the ground on the grass in the open, you are definitely going to need more bedding than any tent, as said.
So if it does not rain it's just temperature you need to worry about.

my gear up post cost me about £40 new.
If you spent £100 on some more quality I can see you using it again for sure.
Sleeping bags you need several and pick the bag for the season and the conditions.

I keep thinking for ideal light weight set up, you need a large bivy where are you can store some of the gear off your bike to protect it from weather and keep it secure.
then all that's needed is some protection for your head, like a light weight umbrella of sorts.
I am still working on the idea :)
Bivy bag needs no groundsheet
500 m up in a bivy you probably need at least a 1200 g bag in the summer.
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LinusR
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by LinusR »

mercalia wrote:I think the ground sheet is about protecting the bag as they aint cheap


Having punctured my thermarest and ripped the built in groundsheet of my tent I'm quite capable of destroying the bivvy :(
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Bivvi bags - advice please

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Oh, they didn't tell you did they, The only way to sleep comfortably in a sleeping bag is with no clothes on, which is what I do and always have.
If you wear your clothes they hold sweat and in the morning it will chill you.
You need to try it to believe it first.
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